Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
My questions are in bold italics and his responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I am 40 and my wife is 39. We have been married 18 years (yes, we married young!) 🙂
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
We have two amazing children: 12 and 10 years old
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
North Atlanta, on the transition from urban to rural
What is your current net worth?
$1.73 million (including primary residence plus cash/investments)
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
- Brokerage Account: $185k
- Roth IRAs: $235k
- 401k: $185k
- Health Savings Account (HSA): $20k
- Cash: $62k
- Incentive Investing Plan (Guarantee): $42k
- Stock Options: $500k (based on current cap table, could be significantly more as company scales to exit or IPO)
- Residence: $500k (mortgage free at 39 years old)
What is your job (type of work and level)?
Executive in Technology Company
What is your annual income?
Me: $170,000 base and $68,000 variable performance bonus.
Wife: My amazing wife chooses to stay at home where she serves as COO and also Principal and Teacher of our children (homeschool).
How did you grow your income so high?
I have been fortunate to make a series of moves in my working career that have consistently lead to more responsibility and multiple promotions, each time securing increasing compensation and responsibility.
What is your main source of income (be as specific as possible — job, investments, inheritance, etc.)?
My W2 employment. All dividends and returns are reinvested in my investment portfolio.
What is your annual spending and what are the main expenses you have?
As you can see in my asset breakdown, I have no mortgage. I also have no car payments because I pay cash for cars. (I just bought my wife a brand new 2017 SUV for cash).
As a result, my spending is quite low relative to my income. Not including Giving and Savings/Investing, I spend….
$5,000/month x 12 = $60,000/year.
The big Monthly Spending Categories:
- Gas: $420/month (we take a lot of road trips)
- Car Maintenance: $180/month (I set this aside for repairs in the future, new tires, recommended schedule, etc)
- Clothing: $125/month (we buy a couple nice pieces/year that last.)
- Eating out: $300/month (nice for us is Thai or Vietnamese)
- Insurance: $300/month (home/auto/umbrella)
- Medical: $300/month (family of 4)
- Groceries & Miscellaneous: $1,600/month (my wife rocks)
- Pocket Spending Money for me: $100/month
- Pocket Spending Money for wife: $100/month
- Property Taxes: $354/month (primary residence)
- Lawn Care: $100/month (fertilizer, mulch, etc)
- College Funds for children: $300/month (have done this since the 1st month they were alive)
- Vacation: $167/month (we do a ton of long weekends – primarily camping)
- Utilities: $377/month (gas, electricity, internet, water, trash)
- There are other things like HOA, Term Life, Termite Bond, that are less than $100/month each.
This is presented as monthly, but obviously things vary somewhat month to month and I do an “envelope” model of budgeting across time.
How did you accumulate your net worth?
I started investing when I was 14 years old. Seriously.
My father literally had $20 in his pocket and my mother had $28 in her purse when they were married and both came from very humble backgrounds. They were both the first to go to college in their families. They both worked incredibly hard and diligently saved throughout their working careers (Navy Commander and School Teacher).
At a young age, my parents (my father primarily) instilled in me the principles of saving and investing. So when I was 14 years old, he took me to see his financial advisor who sat down and he explained my parents’ financial plan to me and the projections for their net worth over time. By the end of the meeting, I had opened up an IRA and funded it with $2,000 that I had earned working that summer. Seeing a projection with millions of dollars in the future for a little bit of money now was amazing to me. I learned the magic of compounding interest and time.
When it was time to go to college, I was not able to earn any scholarship money because my parents had sacrificed since I was very young and had been investing $75/month in a UGMA account for me for many years. I learned this was considered a child asset for purposes of financial aid. So I was 18, that money became mine, and my parents gave it to me to use to pay for school. (It had grown to roughly $30,000). Because I understood the time value of money, I decided not to use it and let it keep growing.
So, I hustled in college – I worked side jobs and each semester I came up with enough money for tuition and books. My strategy was that I went to a 2 year community college (to save on tuition and lived at home to avoid room & board) and then transferred for my final two years to a very expensive private university who provided me with a partial merit scholarship taking the tuition from $20,000 to $5,000. I continued to live at home and commuted.
I graduated debt-free because I worked HARD during school – I even took a semester off for a crazy cool work opportunity and then had to make up for it by taking 20 hours/semester and summer school so as to graduate “on time” still in 4 years.
Not only did I graduate debt-free which is amazing itself, but because I didn’t use the investment account that my parents had saved for me – I started out with $40,000 in net worth the day I graduated as that account had grown. I used some of that money for a 20% down payment on a small home when my wife and I were married.
Since the day I graduated college and got a “real job”, I have consistently invested a % of my income – thinking back I believe I maxed out my Roth IRA and later my wife’s Roth IRA every year.
I married extremely well! My wife was raised with a very similar family story – her father instilled in her a very similar mindset – no debt, buy what you can afford, save, invest. We married while she was in college, but I had already graduated. I paid for her college tuition and she worked some while in school as well. Together, we paid 100% of her college education and she graduated completely debt-free from a hyper competitive school with a 4.0 GPA. She is wicked smart and a hard worker.
She worked for five years to start out our family, and primarily worked to earn enough to buy her dream car: a brand new SUV for cash. We never let her income be a part of our budget because we knew she would not work long term so we lived exclusively on my base salary; never her money and never any of my bonuses.
When we were ready to have children, she simply stopped working and retired! 🙂 And we didn’t miss a beat financially and didn’t have to downsize.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from (or something you’d do differently)?
Honestly, I don’t think I would change a thing or would have done anything differently. We have been incredibly disciplined. Never paid a penny of interest, no student loans, house paid for/no mortgage by age 39, etc.
Sometimes we wonder what it would be like to “live like some of our friends do” – expensive cars, vacation homes, amazingly decorated houses, incredible furniture, exotic vacations, private school for children, massive homes. But they simply do not have $1.73 million in net worth and no mortgage like we do at age 40 and 39. 🙂 And I suspect a lot are in debt and many are stressed out. It is a pretty crazy feeling to know that you owe NO ONE anything.
We love the Dave Ramsey quote: “If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else.”
It is a sacrifice now (but not really relative to the way that 99% of the rest of the world lives). I have a house for my cars! (a garage)
A third of the world lives on less than $1/day. People around the world are living on dirt floors tonight with no food or water. Most people reading this are Americans, and so by that simple fact we are blessed beyond comprehension.
What have you learned in the process of becoming wealthy that others can learn from (what can others apply to become wealthy themselves)?
1. Marry well.
My wife was raised very similar to my upbringing and perspective on giving, saving, and spending. She had no credit card debt. She had no student loan debt. She and I are 100% aligned on the following philosophies. She takes care of 85% of the life stuff so that I can focus on work stuff and earn what I do. I seriously do not know how people do life if both spouses work. I could not do what I do without her help.
2. Give, Save, Spend (in that order).
a. Give (11%) My wife and I choose to contribute a significant portion of our income to charity, and we do this first, right off the top as a percentage of our income (11% gross). We give a large portion of this to our church – one of the most innovative in the world, and we think there is no better investment or return on our money than here. We also contribute to some other non-profit causes in the world like clean drinking water for communities overseas.
b. Save (23% gross base or 50% of bonus gross): We “pay ourselves first”…before we pay bills and others. We pre-determine to save/invest 23% of base income and 50% of any variable income I earn. We max out Backdoor Roth IRAs, max out 401k, and then invest in a taxable brokerage account.
c. Spend: We spend what’s left. We have NEVER designed our lifestyle predicated around earning 1 penny of variable income, even though I have obtained 90-140% of a bonus plan every year for 20 years. I believe in only spending what I have earned, so we spend bonus money AFTER I have it in my bank account on things that are “nice to have” and one-off expenses (i.e. fence, cars, trip, computer). I would love to save more and admire people who do, but once I pay taxes, give away 11% and save 23% of gross – I am living on half of my income as it is, so I’m good with that.
3. Never pay interest! (except mortgage).
I have literally never paid 1 penny of credit card, auto loan or any other interest, except for my mortgage that I paid off by age 39. I have had credit cards for 20+ years and have paid them off. Every. Single. Month. I once had an auto-draft go wrong and they charged me $18 of interest which I called and made them credit back because I will never pay interest. 🙂
4. Give appreciated stock to charity instead of cash.
Instead of giving cash to my church (and other non-profits), I transfer my most appreciated stock or securities to them, and use the cash that I would have donated to repurchase or purchase new stock. This resets my cost basis, avoiding capital gains tax in the future, and I get the full value of the stock as a write-off. Takes a little bit of work to calculate; I fill out the form and fax it to my broker who executes the transfer.
5. Leverage HSA as investment.
If your company provides a Health Savings Account, use it as an investment vehicle. It’s like the best of a Traditional 401k (pre-tax) and Roth IRA (no tax on growth) all-in-one. I max it out and then pay for medical care out of pocket instead of using the money in the HSA now. Who is not going to have medical expenses in the future?
6. Get a 15-year mortgage and/or pay your mortgage off quickly.
I know the #s don’t make sense in this low-interest environment and you can maximize returns, but I am already investing $50k+ annually/year! I decided to refinance my 30-year mortgage to a 15-year and my payment only went up $300/month. I did this in year 28 of the loan on my 3rd home, so I jumped down 13 years in one transaction saving hundreds of thousands in interest. Then I put a bonus against it and saved $32k in interest and shaved off 4 years (so then I was down to 9 years).
I could see a 10-year horizon, so I felt like I could actually see the light at the end of the tunnel, so I decided to make it a game – what could I do to pay this off as quickly as possible? I started just throwing any leftover money along with a one-time signing bonus when I changed jobs at it and paid my mortgage off Dec 2015 – at age 39! What did my wife and I do to celebrate? We went out for a nice meal and spent <$100.
I don’t know if I would have chosen to do this instead of investing, but I was fortunate to be able to do “both” – I was maxing out my 401k, maxing out 2 Roth IRAs and did this. My philosophy was that the stock market might crash (and I could lose principal), but not having a mortgage was a guarantee return giving me tremendous flexibility and peace.
When you don’t have a mortgage – you can virtually do anything for work because the amount of money needed to live on is pretty low. At any moment, I can quit my job and feel great about my financial situation or take almost any job since my base expenses are so low.
7. Teach your kids young so that they can get a head start.
My parents did this for me (and my wife’s for her). By the time I graduated college, I had a Roth IRA and was already saving the max.
My kids have 3 jars on their dressers with labels on them for “Give”, “Save”, “Spend”. Every single time they earn or are given money, they break it down: 10%, 20% and 70% respectively. They think this is normal and love it.
When our kids were small, I always paid them in increments that broke down this way easily so they could learn to do the math. My 10 year old just this week hit $1,000 in his savings. 57% of American adults don’t even have $1,000 saved. My 12 year old has her own Roth IRA opened in her name. She puts 100% of her baby sitting money in it and I pay her back dollar for dollar in cash so she still has her money to Give, Save, Spend.
I sit down with my children and show them their returns in their savings accounts and Roth IRA accounts. They think it is crazy cool that they own part of Apple, Facebook, Amazon and other companies through their Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Funds.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
Stay the course with my investing strategy as laid out above. Continuing to do with an 8.7% return will put me at ~$5.3 mm by age 55 and ~$8.3 mm by age 60.
However, even if I stopped investing today and invested zero additional money, my current investment portfolio is projected to grow to ~$4 mm by the time I am 55 years old and ~$6mm by the time I am 60 years old (assuming ~8.7% return).
This shows the power of starting early! At age 40 (when a lot of people start investing), I could stop and be totally fine.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
I have always wanted to retire young. I remember setting a goal to be retired by age 50 when I started investing at age 14.
My Target Number is $3 mm. At 4% safe withdrawal rate that throws off $120,000/year.
That is 2x what I spend today, so that should give us some buffer. 😉
If I keep investing at my current rate, I will achieve $3 mm by age 50 (10 years). If I stopped investing today, my current portfolio would obtain this at age 52 (12 years).
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle (for instance, will your net worth allow you to retire early, downsize jobs, etc.)?
I have recently been toying with the idea of quitting my high stress job as a software executive and taking a step back to do something that would allow more freedom. It would be amazing to see if I could transition from focusing on “making money” to “making a difference” in the world.
The question I’ve been wrestling with is: “Could I take all the best practices from leadership, strategy, finance, operations, HR, sales, marketing, etc. and help non-profits go further, faster in their missions?”
Is there any advice you have for ESI Money readers regarding wealth accumulation?
Give, Save, Invest. Pick a % for each bucket. Stick to it for 20+ years. The best time to start this was 20 years ago. But the 2nd best time is to start TODAY.
See my other learnings above.
Dads Dollars debrs says
I love these series and this was a great interview. Seems like he had the right plan all along. I have only met one person in my life with a similar mentality. 3 kids while training and never had debt. I thought it was crazy but turns out he had the right plan all along. Thanks for sharing your story.
M31 says
Thank you! Happy to share if others are interested in me passing down part of what I have learned and take action for themselves! 🙂
M31 says
Thank you! Happy to share if others are interested in me passing down part of what I have learned and take action for themselves! 🙂
Lena | Design Your Dollar says
Such a great interview. I bet it’s a wonderful feeling to be stress free from having no debt.
Kuddos to his parents for teaching him the power of money at a young age. I believe it makes a huge impact on ones financial future when taught at a young age.
Im
Going to start those give, save, spend jars right now for my three kids!
M31 says
Awesome. Your kids will love them! We had each of my kids help “make them” (painted lids to pickle jars black), then they decorated them with GIVE | SAVE | SPEND letter stickers, etc. They got them really into it!
The Grounded Engineer says
Great interview! I cannot believe you were able to start investing at age 14 – that is incredible. This post inspired me to go back and run future value calculations to see how I will compare at age 40. I’m currently around $280k networth (doesn’t include about $100k in home equity) and I’m 30.
M31 says
You are doing great! Keep it up.
Age 30 for me: I was at about $150k w/o Home or Stuff (just investment) and I was investing ~ $12k then. That was the first year I made over $100k.
Shows the power of TIME, consistency and % savings…my earnings really grew from there during the 30->40 decade.
The Grounded Engineer says
Wow! I’ll keep at it and one day I’ll be on here with ESI!
Matt C says
This is probably the most encouraging thing I have read on this site ever. It is almost exactly where I am at on every step.
Age 30
100k investment
investing 18k/yr (401k max)
100k/yr income.
I loved this interview the most for many additional reasons too!
1.) I am in ATL
2.) I have 3 kids and have been wrestling with how to get them into ESI mindset (thanks for the Jar idea, I will use it)
3.) giving is a big priority of ours
4.) Stay at home wife.
I have often wondered if it could be done considering all of the above and you have given me hope.
you are a great inspiration and where I want to be in the next 10 years. Thank you!
Razorback 14 says
Great interview—-thank you for the details —- I can see a plan developing from this interview.
Sure wish more people would follow a similar plan. Start early and stay focused —- and don’t take on debt. Debt is a drain.
Again, thank you for taking the time to share with us.
M31 says
You are welcome! Glad to hear you are going to start a plan yourself!
Flyboy says
Marry well – That IS #1. From my experience with my two grown children, you will be fighting severe headwinds if you don’t get this one right.
M31 says
Right on. #1 fight in marriage = about money. Remove that and you can have more peace, less headwinds and headaches and more time for fun!
Mike at Balanced Dividends says
Wow – great post. This is actually the first from this series that I came across – very informative.
Related to some of the comments already made above, it’s interesting to see the many paths to financial independence and/or the feelings experienced in the many different paths.
From some of other sites / posts elsewhere in the community, we often see that “W2 is not the way” – it’s refreshing to see here that moderate spending and consistent investing/saving can work quite well.
Thanks for sharing.
Franklin Bach says
Fantastic story. You nailed it. It practically mirrors my story, Be careful of counting on your stock options though. Have a backup plan for them. Until they are cashed in and the taxes paid, their value could go underwater. Who would ever think that GE stock would drop to $17/share and hold from the days of $32 or even $60?
Your long term savings plan, college savings plan and lifestyle are rock solid business plans.
M31 says
So true and right on. I’m not banking on the ESOP and it be worth $0! But it’s “free money” and since it’s in a tech company – it could be worth a mint on the right exit event.
Even so, my goals include continuing to save/invest ~ $60k/year so that should offset the risks over the next 10 years where I plan to work and then re-evaluate.
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
Franklin, you are so right and my wife and I are living proof regarding GE. We both worked there for 18 and 20 years respectively, and have a boatload of stock that we didn’t sell and now sit here and hope the new CEO’s strategy can deliver some of the gains back to us over time. We did sell quite a bit along the ride down from 60 but sure wish we had sold it all when we both left the company in 2012 and 2015.
MJ says
Great interview!!
Life long learner says
Awesome, M31. You are definitely on a great path.
Your strategy and experience paying for college reminded me of what I’ve done for my children. When my kids were born I looked at how colleges calculated financial aid. I took the chance that the calculations could potentially change over time but I was willing to accept that risk. I learned that UGMA and UTMA accounts are considered the full ownership of the child so that is fully factored into tuition contribution/payment. The same applies for 529 with child’s name on it. However, retirement accounts are not factored in. With this in mind, I set up Roth IRA for my children, when they were old enough to assist me with my business. When they earned allowance, I also put that into their Roth’s. So when they go to college there is a modest amount in a 529 plan, but the majority of their savings/investments are in a Roth.
I’m also teaching my children to save but the target is 25% of income. My eldest is taking an investment class in school and we regularly discuss what they learning. The current project is how to spot investment bubbles, eg bitcoin.
With respect to mortgage, my approach was similar to yours to pay it off quickly, after funding retirement and savings accounts. However, my strategy was a little different, because I didn’t want to pay fees (I was quoted $2-3K that would have 3 month of payments) to refinance from a 30 yr to 15yr. Every month I made extra payments and when I received annual bonus or quarterly performance kickers, I put that whole amount toward the principal. My bank allowed me to recast the mortgage each year for no fee. All of the extra payments, effectively reduced the total principal. Not every bank/lienholder allows you to do this, but it saved me money on fees while reducing the interest owed.
Gervasio Sanchez says
Great interview. Congratulations in your success. Could you please share your asset allocation? Stocks vs bonds , national vs international. Thanks
M31 says
I shoot for the Lazy Portfolio” model. I basically do 4 core Vanguard Index funds and then I might invest in a handful of direct stocks that I really understand and believe in, and that I think will outpace the market. Although I have really sold (given to charity) a lot of my direct stock to radically simplify my holdings.
High Level:
40% into VTSMX, the Vanguard Total Stock Market index fund
32% into VGTSX, the Vanguard Total International Stock index fund
20% into VBMFX, the Vanguard Total Bond Market index fund
8% into VGSIX, the Vanguard REIT index fund (a REIT is like a mutual fund for real estate)
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios#Core_four_portfolios
I honestly wouldn’t say I’m an expert in this and lately I’ve been thinking there probably isn’t a better country to bet on that the USA so I’ve been accumulating cash and will deploy to the VTSMX fund on a downturn.
I always wanted to get into direct real estate and read stories from folks like ESI who did it the right way at the right time. I never had the time to really engage in it so I have focused on Index Funds and paying off my own mortgage. I think I will diversify in the coming years into some corporate real estate with some friends who do well in this and I will join them as an investor.
RonS says
I think the Bogleheads core four portfolio is a very good starting point — low cost, broad diversification, long term perspective, Vanguard is an excellent mutual fund company. If you want to consider something a little more complex that should be easily managed with a simple spreadsheet to determine annual or some interval of rebalancing, you might find these articles of interest:
https://www.financial-planning.com/news/three-against-one-a-battle-of-index-funds
https://www.financial-planning.com/news/why-a-total-non-us-stock-market-index-fund-may-backfire
https://www.financial-planning.com/news/can-3-bond-funds-outperform-1
Although I’ve made my millions, it came much later and with much more turmoil. I didn’t start to learn about investing until my late 50s-early 60s. With 9 grandchildren, ages 14 to 24, I’m trying to teach and do with them with investing what I didn’t know and couldn’t do with my 3 children.
Not marrying too early, marrying well/compatible values and goals, and staying married are some of the most important starting points and lessons in life. Lessons I hope to pass on to my grandchildren with the hope that they will be able to influence their children much more than I was able to influence my children from a distance, although my 3 children are all in stable, happy marriages for 17 to 25 years now.
Keep up your level headed efforts.
Gervasio Sanchez says
Thanks a lot! May God continue blessing to you and to your family.!
Accidental FIRE says
Talk about having your head on straight, wow. Great job. I too started investing around 14 yrs old, but by ‘investing’ I mean putting some money from my allowance into a savings account. I remember looking at the ledger book (we had those) and seeing the interest accumulate. Granted, it was about .50 cents a month, but it made a mark on me.
Major kudos and great interview!
Boz says
I will have my 20 and 11 year old children read this today. We have similar philosophies in our house so it will be nice for them to hear it from somebody else to help reinforce the all too important concepts and practices needed to become financially independent and self-suffificient.
Thanks for sharing your story.
P.S. Our oldest has $35K+/- in a Roth IRA which he started once he started working at 14 too. Bet not too many other 20 year olds can say that. Next up: our daughter!!
M31 says
That is AMAZING! Great job leading your family well. Most adults don’t have more than $5k.
Erik @ The Mastermind Within says
I love these interviews – it’s awesome to again, see the power of the compounding when you start very young (14 in this case)!
M31 says
“Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it … he who doesn’t … pays it.” ― Albert Einstein
Darren says
WOW!
Life’s a beach says
Good luck on those options! Lots of folks, myself included, try a startup once in their career and have options potentially worth upwards of $1M. But not all that glitters turns out to be gold. Mine didn’t. But I worked hard and saved and still became millionaire 24. Keep up your lifestyle!!!!
M31 says
Right on!
The options are free money/cherry on top for me. I’m a millionaire with or without them and in the top 2% of worlds wealth which is a ridiculous thought to me (and doesn’t feel like that sometimes with the pressures of the world).
Carlos says
Great interview! Thank you for sharing your story.
You are the perfect example of the “Millionaire Next Door” …
Jason@WinningPersonalFinance says
This one reads like a fairy tale. Focusing on giving and teaching his kids. Wanting to transition from “making money” to “making a difference.” Congrats to MI31 on your accomplishments. You truly come off sounding too good to be true.
M31 says
I’m real! 🙂 Ha. Just trying to live out my life in a way that me, my family and my creator are proud of and can impact others in my community and world. When you realize that 1/3 of the world lives on < $1/day and the next 1/3 lives on <$2/day, you realized how much money we really have as Americans and just how much all of us should have in margin to be able to help others.
It is an amazing experience to send $30k to a charity to help them go further, faster and impact peoples lives and future in a real way.
Kevin says
This is a lesson in parenting for sure, at least one aspect of it – that being preparing your children to be independent and financially successful. I harp that educational system does not teach enough about real life finance. Reality is it should be taught at home, but that is somewhat unrealistic given how many parents are not doing this themselves. It started with your parents and is being passed down. If we can teach high school students to be self motivated then in 20 years, just think about the compounding of the family units that are doing teaching their children as you have. So for that I HUGE KUDOS!.
There are so many positives that I cant really find a thing I would change either. Well done!
M31 says
Thank you Kevin and I agree! Merry Christmas.
Kevin says
Its hard to emphasize enough how important this is. All of us who have picked up on the power of savings from our parents are very, very fortunate to have done so. Some don’t learn about the power of compounding both from an evil (debt) and good (investments) perspective until it is too late to realize and take advantage of the power of TIME.
Kevin says
Different Kevin 🙂
RetireSoon says
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from (or something you’d do differently)?
Honestly, I don’t think I would change a thing or would have done anything differently. We have been incredibly disciplined.
>>> don’t think I’ve seen that answer before and I wish I could say the same.
>>> I’d like more detail on your yearly expenses ?
M31 says
RetireSoon – thank you. I’m glad to be able to say that and it just takes trying to do the wise thing over and over and over for 40 years. 😉
Regarding yearly expenses – what would you like to know above and beyond what I shared in the breakdown above? I’ll share if more if I can!
RetireSoon says
Hi M31 … was completely joking on details on expenses. Your were extremely thorough throughout the entire interview. Thanks for sharing your story. I’ve started making my 7 year old save part of his chore money!
Amy @ Life Zemplified says
Great story M31!
“The question I’ve been wrestling with is: Could I take all the best practices from leadership, strategy, finance, operations, HR, sales, marketing, etc. and help non-profits go further, faster in their missions?” I bet you could!
Thanks for sharing your story and best of luck with your future plans.
Steve says
Well done M31! Keep going and you are going to make it. Here is a little inspiration. I just retired this year at 52 with a similar plan and goal and I can tell you it is fabulous being financially independent. I would say you are ahead of where I was at your age especially if those options come home. Your portfolio looks spot on for today’s environment. I like that you have international and some non US stock investments. US stocks are pretty rich at the moment but don’t let that stop you. I survived market declines from the Gulf war, 9/11, tech bubble and the great recession of 2008. In the end, you will find your 8.7% assumption for returns should be achievable and is very reasonable if you stay with it, dollar cost averaging along the way.
M31 says
Thank you for the insight, encouragement and feedback Steve! I hope that I will be able to be exactly where you are when I grow up in 12 years! Ha. 😉
I look forward to the day when I can retire at 52 and LIVE – and pursue what I want to do each day instead of trading my time for money.
Ember @ An Intentional Lifestyle says
I love and connect to this interview so much. Both my husband and I read ESI, though my husband is more consistent. He sent me this interview bc we are also a single income, homeschooling family. So much if what you say feels relatable. My husband’s career has moved forward bc of my being home to take care of everything there. And allowing his time how to be quality time together. Thank you for representing a part of this community that feels overlooked at times. Single income families who are thriving! Love this whole thing!!!
M31 says
Right on Ember! I couldn’t do what I do without my wife doing what she does! My life would be so much more hectic w/o her taking care of a lot of the household stuff. I certainly would be much more stressed out with no margin in my life – and don’t think I could take on the high profile, high stress and high income executive jobs that I have done. Obviously I make a lot more than the “average” American but I couldn’t do that in a dual income environment.
And she gets to do so much amazing stuff with the kids as a homeschool mom and my children are ridiculously amazingly impacted by her. The amount of time she spends with them is 10x the “norm” and they have been better humans because of it!
Keep up the great work that you are doing! You are doing a great work and don’t come down. 🙂 I’ll share your blog with my wife
ps I checked it out and the header menu isn’t working properly on Safari (not clickable!)
Ember @ An Intentional Lifestyle says
I’d love to connect with her! I’m all about gleaning wisdom from those that have been where we are.
And thanks for the heads up about my site! I’m working on a fix!
Stop Ironing Shirts says
Great interview M31. How’d you decide on Atlanta / Northern GA? I credit moving to the area at 25 as one of the biggest drivers of my income and net worth. High incomes, relatively affordable housing, and lots of opportunity. Plus recreation options are cheap and plentiful outdoors if you want to drive to the Northern GA mountains or coastal sc / ga / fl.
M31 says
I didn’t really make a choice on Atlanta as a decision myself – a job offer brought me down here and I relocated from another city in the SE.
However, the reasons that you highlight are EXACTLY the reasons why we have stayed and love Atlanta/North GA. High tech scene, high incomes (we live in the 6th wealthiest county in the US), yet affordable housing, great family area for children, tons of work opportunity and you can get places all over the SE by car that are amazing to explore.
We are BIG TIME outdoor people – hiking, biking, flyfishing, kayaking, camping. I can be in Asheville in 3 hours, the Great Smoky Mountains National Park in 2 1/2. We camp all over NGA and WNC almost year round. There is world-class whitewater and trout fishing all very close to us across 4 states (TN, GA, NC, SC) within a few hours drive.
And we love Destin/Florida Panhandle so we can be on the Gulf of Mexico in is 5 1/2 hours or the Atlantic Ocean at Savannah in 4 1/2 hours.
Finally, with the ATL airport, I can fly anywhere in the world and anywhere in the US with a direct flight!
Jeff B. says
When the airport has power. 🙂
Mr. FWP says
Great interview! Also, great point about the wife – we both did well there, and that has made all the difference. But God had to line that one up for you.
I also love the perspective re: giving and re: your wealth versus the world. Like you, my wife and I constantly remind ourselves of how wealthy we really are (and we aren’t as wealthy) relative to the world around us. It is too easy to forget. Even a poor American is relatively wealthy, even when it may not feel that way because so many are even wealthier.
I enjoyed reading your story – it reminded me of our own story (right down to buying an SUV with cash) – and hope to see you around here more.
Like you, I use my financial flexibility and talents, such as they are, to pursue things that make the world a better place – by serving others. That’s a powerfully fulfilling way to live (whether it’s non-profit or not).
M31 says
God has a plan and I’m trying to do my best to stay on it!
It’s crazy how well off we all are as Americans but how stressed out we all are for stuff.
My favorite line: “We have houses for our cars!” 😉
Josh M says
Great interview and congrats to M31, you’ve done great. Quick question, about what age did you start your children saving? I think it’s a great idea and will put my children on the same plan, although they’re 3 and 1 right now. Currently thinking in the 8-10 year range. Thanks!
M31 says
Our kids got jars at 3 and 5 years old – they would put in chore money and we would start to do the math simply in 10s increments.
Hair Shirt says
Great interview?
Too much rah, rah, rah here. Let me add some negativity to balance it out.
There’s less to learn from someone who has supposedly done everything right and has no regrets. If you have no regrets then are you really getting the most out of your life?
Maybe the one lesson would be to start teaching finance to kids at an early age.
M31 says
And queue the negative nelly.
I didn’t say I don’t have any regrets. I don’t have any financial regrets.
I am getting the most out of my life and I don’t look to you or any other human to validate that for me. I work hard, play hard, help others, have an amazing wife and children, family and friends, give a ton to charity and am a millionaire who lives in the greatest country in the world.
Why would I focus on the negative in life when I have so much to be thankful of and to look forward to. I’m wired to look to the future and focus on the positive in life. Sorry I’m not negative enough for you.
I bet you are a blast at parties!
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
Hair Shirt says, “Maybe the one lesson would be to start teaching finance to kids at an early age.”
Really? M31 started teaching his kids about money using the cash jars at ages 3 and 5. How much earlier do YOU think he should have done?
SMM says
14 years old is awesome! Congrats to you and your wife especially for her having the ability to stay home and spend more time with the family and with teaching. Finally, people don’t emphasize the importance of giving to others enough and it’s so refreshing to see the importance you have given that. 🙂
Jack says
Thank you for the interview! I feel that we have a lot of in common and it is great to hear your perspective. I, too, am in the tech industry and have built up a solid net worth over the years. I am 37 and I also plan on paying my mortgage by 40 even though my 15 year loan is at 2.875% right now. I just want to get away from paying interest and take that item out of my expense. Like you said, that will be a huge relief and I can be more free in choosing what job I want to do. In addition, I also have a goal to have a good amount of my living expense be covered by my passive income at that point. So most of what I make will go to savings and future investments. That will be quite fantastic.
M31 says
Curious what you are doing for passive income? I need to crack this next.
Jack says
Nothing to specific yet 🙂 I still have a few years before I need to figure that out and execute on it. Currently I have rental property that is aimed for growth but not cash flow. At some point, I can swap that for another property or properties that will generate more cash flow. That could potentially be enough to take care of most my family’s expenses. The current property is at a great location with great job opportunities, so I can see it go up further. Also, it is nice to take care of just one property at the moment.
Jeff B says
Do dividends count as passive income? If you have $2M dollars saved, that can be $60K in dividends a year.
MI #30 says
M31,
It is very impressive that you have kept up the discipline since a young age, and great that you had some wonderful role models and teachers so early in life. Our daughter is 4 1/2 and I like the idea of starting the different jars, thanks for sharing that.
I was able to figure it out early enough in life but had I started even earlier than I would have progressed further. In the end it’s just a race against ourselves.
Best wishes to you,
MI#30
CA says
First, great story. Thanks for sharing. I was at about the same levels at 30 and am now 38 and tracking to where you are. Nice!
Second, I wanted to offer a thought on transitioning to mission driven work. I spent the early part of my career in the private sector and now help lead a nonprofit. My headline advice / question for you is – why wait?! Life is too short.
Some follow-up points:
1) your costs are low and you can reach your target without saving anymore. So you have room to reduce your salary.
2) that said, you don’t have to take a huge pay cut! I started out in mid level fundraising role. While I took a pay cut initially, my toolkit from the private sector helped me stand out and I’m now making a very nice salary (about 200k per year). To be clear, I’m in a senior role and those are hard to get – but if you are in a high performing nonprofit then you will have a salary well above your current expenses.
3) if you want to do mission driven work, be crystal clear on your “why” story for that mission and org. It will be a difference maker – as a hiring manager myself, I’m looking at the skills and experience AND the nonnegotiable is the person’s alignment to the org core values and mission.
4) final point – if you wait til you are 50, the transition to a significant role will likely be harder. In part because of ageism. In part because of point #3 above – i.e. If you are really committed to the mission, why have you waited 30 yrs to do something about it. It’s harder to be compelling to a hiring manager. (It is possible though – I’ve seen it either through a person’s personal story / upbringing or volunteer involvement).
Good luck!
Dollar Policy says
“We give a large portion of this to our church – one of the most innovative in the world, and we think there is no better investment or return on our money than here.”
This is a profound statement and I pray that the Lord changes my heart to believe that giving provides the absolute best return on investment.
I am curious if you have always had this perspective or if you got there over time. What do you think has given you and your wife this attitude?
M31 says
I haven’t always had this perspective. And I don’t think I would say this about any church that we have been a part of except the church that we are actively engaged with in Atlanta for the past 15 years.
It is incredibly innovative and we have been really involved and seen first hand the life change and impact in our community and around the world. We as a church just raised over $5 million dollars to give away 100% of it to local non-profits.
We think the church should be full of the most generous people on the planet and should be known for two things: Love and Generosity.
M31 says
Additionally – I think it is our realization and understanding that biblically speaking “our money” is not really “ours”. God has given it to us as stewards during our lifetime to manage and invest wisely to get the biggest return for His kingdom. Because of this we look to be a part of a church that is making an amazing impact for leading people into a growing relationship with Jesus. Our church is leading the way for this globally and as a result we are investing in it heavily with a front row seat to amazing life change in our community and around the world.
RG says
Let me add to the rah, rah, rah side of the ledger. M31 gets my vote for Time’s Person of the Year. He is a role model not only for his children, but all parents (and even adults without kids). Everyone is certainly free to choose their own priorities, but the world would surely be a much better place if more people realized that they can still have a materially blessed life by earning, saving, investing, and giving, in whatever order or rank they choose, and by also consciously being aware of how blessed we are and how much we take for granted in this country, while still enjoying the fruits of your labors. I loved hearing how he and his wife have gotten to where they are primarily on one income, while raising a family, and without real estate investments. A lot of us that have worked long hours in our careers have had little time to learn and understand how to benefit from real estate investing, but it is so refreshing to hear again the message that regardless of what career path you choose, consistently living below your income, saving the difference, investing it in a diversified yet simple to manage portfolio on a consistent basis, while still giving generously, can provide a great life, and not just materially. I’m not religious, but would join (and attend) a church like he describes. In my experience, there are too many congregations who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. Finally, I would commend him for not only enjoying the out of doors for its recreational opportunities, but particularly passing that appreciation down to his kids and their generation. The world needs more of this. Thank you to ESI, and to M31 for this interview.
M31 says
Thank you RG! Merry Christmas!
So if one of these are close by:
http://northpointpartners.org/directory
RG says
Thx, all the best!
Richard says
I’m incredibly negative on multiple fronts (lol), unapologetically materialist and heathen, but there’s a residual humanitarian streak in there that cuts through the misanthropy. In short, even I can get jazzed by most of this. Exposing rugrats to the great outdoors, getting them wise about money, homeschooling. seizing life on your own terms . . . no complaints. An excellent start for anyone, but leading by example clearly isn’t enough; neither is your local public school OR most churches. Without detail to further quantify, it sounds like M-31 and co. have found an excellent church. I don’t break bread with them, but the local Lutherans here have a great thing going with community gardens, a thrift shop and a no questions asked type of food bank. Their tithing methods fund the staffing and first creation of these projects, but if you shop at their thrift store, or rent a cheap 3×9 garden plot, 100% of that goes back into more food, or to cover property taxes, not mission work. So I can work with them on that level without beefage i.e. concerns or trouble about what they actually believe; the good they’re doing is clear enough, and satisfies. Having children is a more challenging matter; the gf and I, attached for life, have talked about possibly adopting, maybe, but it remains beyond my comfort level. She’s an educator; I work at a casino. Fine for us, but we don’t need anyone walking in our footsteps. We came out of unstable, adverse circumstances so have generally taken a darkened view at life itself and what can and should be done. We don’t have a family business, or particularly need an inheritor to cradle some massive estate, so it’s moot. The gf’s sister will inherit should we both fall; a very capable and shrewd judge from even more adverse circumstances, she will most certainly do and know what to do, no strings attached. Taking a step back, in a greater light it’s obvious enough that great things don’t come to pass by osmosis; you have to hustle and work at it to see great results as a parent or person. I didn’t get wise till 40, so yeah, an early start would be nice (lol). The sooner the better.
Richard says
Kind of funny, but of all the things that get to me, it’s Ark Encounter . . . I like those commercials! Unlike the ASPCA, or St. Jude’s, various others; I think their tactics are appalling, collectively, their numbers suspicious. I don’t blink and their ways harden me. Those Ark spots, though, are really nice. Starts out with the adolescent going, hey man, this seems hard; slightly smug parent goes hey, you think THIS is hard . . . but then it shows them bonding, conversing, some quality time together. Human or animal, that works for all time, without question. I also like boats and woodwork, so there’s that, and while their on-site messaging could turn me another way, I like to think it would be awesome to visit, maybe find something cool in their gift shop. Only way to bridge it, kids; good works and healthy socialization, even if you have to shut out all the other noise.