Millionaire Interview 477

Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.

If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.

This interview took place in March.

My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.

Let’s get started…

OVERVIEW

How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?

I’m 48 and my husband is 51.

We have been married 27 years.

Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?

We have 3 “kids” – ages 24, 23, and 21.

The oldest two are nearly launched while the youngest is living at home while attending a local state university.

What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?

We live in a low to medium cost of living area in the south within 45 minutes of a major metropolitan area.

Our home sits on 5 acres on a country road just outside the city limits.

What is your current net worth?

Currently, Monarch is telling me $4.845 million – this includes our home value.

What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?

Our assets are broken down as follows:

• $950,000 = Commercial real estate – conservative valuation is $3.2 million minus a $2.25 million loan
• $900,000 = Real estate syndications – current valuation is $1.011 million but I don’t feel comfortable banking on this until these properties go full cycle
• $900,000 = Primary residence – valuation is in the ballpark of $1.1 million minus $195,000 on the mortgage
• $820,000 = Traditional IRA + TSP – 98% total stock or S&P 500 index funds, 2% small cap blend index fund
• $735,000 = Brokerage account – 68% individual stocks, 32% total stock or S&P 500 index funds
• $375,000 = Restricted stock units (RSUs) – company where I currently work
• $140,000 = Small Class C RV – I’m listing this here because it’s a sellable asset but of course the value is going down like a rock with use and time so I’ve excluded it from the net
• worth total above (our other vehicles aren’t even worth mentioning)
• $70,000 = Roth (TSP, IRA & current 401k) – 90% total stock or S&P 500 index funds; 10% small cap blend index fund
• $75,000 = Cash or cash equivalents
• $20,000 = HSA

EARN

What is your job?

I am a physical therapist, and my husband is a middle school teacher. I stepped out of patient care in 2020 into full-time management, and my husband just earned his doctorate last year so he is as high as he can go on the pay scale as a classroom teacher.

He works for the federal government so he will continue with annual step increases until he retires.

I worked as a staff physical therapist from the time I graduated from PT school in 2001 through 2006, at which time I opened my own practice. I sold that practice in 2023.

What is your annual income?

For 2026, we are looking at $234,000 combined for our income – I make $110,000 while my husband recently increased to $124,000 with his education advancement. As part of the terms of my business sale, I have had $100,000 notes paid out in both 2024 and 2025, and the last 2 notes will pay out this year and next.

Our income has varied wildly over the years, especially in the early years of the business – we lived paycheck-to-paycheck while operating the business in much the same way until I gained some basic business skills in the 2013/14 time frame.

W-2 income for 2025 was $216,492.

Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?

I’ve always been a hustler – it started with babysitting as a teenager and then as an ice cream scooper at the age of 15. Besides 3 brief maternity leaves and a 9-month sabbatical in 2018, I’ve always worked.

My husband was a little over 3 years into his teaching career when our first child arrived in 2001 and we decided it was the best choice for our family for one of us to stay home with our children. Because my $44,000 starting PT salary was double my husband’s teacher salary, the choice was made.

He started a 6-year stint as a stay-at-home dad before it was cool!

While this impacted his career trajectory and lifetime earnings, we have never regretted this choice. Our youngest was 3 when he re-entered the workforce part-time in 2008.

Had he not stayed home with our kiddos, I don’t feel I would have been okay starting a business.

Our taxed Medicare Earnings are listed below – keep in mind that my small business was a sole proprietorship/LLC so the IRS saw me personally and my company as one and the same. We had no clue what we were doing and I felt like most of our earnings were being eaten up by reinvesting in the business.

Starting in 2009, we lived mainly off my husband’s earnings. My earnings did cover our mortgage but were otherwise reinvested in the business.

What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?

Invest in yourself. When I look back on these earnings, I can see exactly where we made a bet on ourselves.

I completed a program in 2014 that focused on private practice management and gave me baseline business skills I was lacking. My husband earned his master’s degree in 2016 and his doctorate in 2025, resulting in more robust pay scale increases.

Each degree paid for itself in under two years – the higher he is on the payscale, the better his pension calculation also.

What’s your work-life balance look like?

Being self-employed has always offered us the flexibility we craved raising a family – I can count on one hand how many times one of us missed one of the kids’ activities. With that said, building a business is not for the faint of heart – the hours were long and taxing but we made the best of it.

My husband staying home with our kids when they were young and then having teacher hours during their school years was invaluable.

Right now, we have the best work-life balance we’ve ever experienced. I agreed to work for the company that purchased my business for 5 years.

I’ve continued in my exact pre-sale role – only with capital and administrative support behind the scenes. I’m simply doing more of the things I enjoy and less of the things I don’t (ie payroll, taxes, revenue cycle management, etc).

We take every opportunity we can to get out of dodge on Friday afternoons in our RV – to hike, find new restaurants, and go antiquing and we love every minute!

Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?

Notes from Sale of the Business = $100,000 annually (2026 and 2027 remaining)

Real Estate Syndications = $40,500 annually

I was not comfortable enough with investing at the time of the business sale in 2023 to put everything in the market so the cash payout (after paying the IRS) was split between real estate and the market. This is passive income, most offset by depreciation.

Commercial Real Estate = ~$40,000 annually

Even though I sold the business in 2023, we maintained ownership of the commercial building where it’s located. It generates ~$40,000 annually with rent escalations of 2.5% annually starting in April 2026.

Dividends & Interest = ~$10,000 annually; these are currently reinvested.

SAVE

What is your annual spending?

I loosened the reins this past year – and it shows! We spent just over $194,000 last year, which is the most we’ve ever spent annually.

Our norm is ~$140,000, but we celebrated BIG this past year with a trip to Iceland with our 2nd college grad and over 40 overnights in the RV.

What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?

Spend

• $36,000 = Housing & Maintenance – mainly mortgage + real estate taxes
• $32,000 = Travel & Lifestyle
• $24,100 = Food & Dining (includes toiletries and household items) – I don’t itemize Walmart receipts
• $23,000 = Shopping
• $20,050 = Gifts & Donations
• $15,500 = Education – 3 college semesters between 2 kids + husband’s last classes
• $13,500 = Medical & Wellness – health insurance premiums + out-of-pocket costs
• $10,000 = Gas & Auto Maintenance
• $8800 = Utilities & Phone
• $7500 = Personal Insurance
• $3600 = Fees & Legal Services (did estate planning last year)

Save

• $75,000 = Brokerage & Savings
• $54,500 = Traditional Retirement Contributions
• $8550 = HSA

Taxes

• $69,000 = Taxes – we haven’t filed yet so this is quarterly estimates plus withholding

Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?

We do not set a specific budget beyond monitoring transactions in Monarch. We were budget envelope users in the lean years and while I feel this was necessary at the time, I’m not sure I could revert.

Savings comes off the top and I monitor the rest.

What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?

The irregularity of our income over time made this difficult to figure out. It was valuable for me to look at paystubs and account for everything as a whole instead of my normal view in Monarch which is after deductions.

Last year, we came in at a 34% savings rate. In 2024, we came in right around 50%.

In the early years of the business and when my husband was a stay-at-home dad, we were saving nothing beyond maintaining sinking funds and avoiding debt. When we were eligible to make retirement plan contributions, we always contributed the minimum to get our employer match (usually in the 2-5% range).

What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?

I would advocate having a plan for extra funds/windfalls/increased income. In our early years, we didn’t even know what investing was so anything extra that came in vanished into thin air!

After I “woke up” in 2018, we had a plan for everything that came in and this served us well when income increased and I sold the company.

What’s your best tip for spending less money?

Not sure I can speak to that for this past year! In our early years, we were incredibly frugal and avoided debt – thanks, Dave Ramsey!

It was more difficult for me to flip that switch in recent years than I thought it would be – also…thanks, Dave Ramsey;-/

I’m a natural saver – I love seeing our balance grow and the gamification of it makes me giddy. I think it’s completely tied to feeling secure and MAY have a pinch of control thrown in there:-) I never buy anything full price and I love finding deals.

In the early years, avoiding debt was key – back in 2014, we swore off car payments and never looked back. That included buying 3 used cars for 3 kids and our RV with cash.

We get a lot of gratification driving our cars into the ground and don’t feel like we have to impress anyone.

My husband is the opposite of a saver without being a spender…if that makes sense. He buys what he wants but would never make a frivolous purchase.

His big thing has always been buying for quality – we are big Consumer Reports users and lately like to peruse Reddit’s Buy It For Life (BIFL) to cut down on our landfill contributions.

We are also huge DIYers and my husband is incredibly handy. We contracted/subbed out our own home back so the brunt of the equity in our home is sweat equity – my husband did all the electrical work and we did all the floors, tile, and painting ourselves.

What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?

Easy – travel/RVing AND hobbies! We love exploring new locales and eating locally whenever we travel.

We also may travel to learn a new skill or attend a training course. I recently attended an upholstery retreat and my husband is taking historical fencing lessons twice a week.

Filling our time and staying active in retirement will not be an issue!

INVEST

What is your investment philosophy/plan?

I feel like I went from simple…to more complex…and now I’m working my way back to simple again. After waking up in 2018, and going down the financial independence rabbit hole, we started out with S&P 500 and total stock market index funds.

We then added single stocks, commercial real estate and syndications. While I’m not upset about any of these choices, I do see the value in remaining uber simple when it comes to mental bandwidth.

We would like to retire early – my husband at age 57 (June 2031) and me potentially at age 51 (April 2028). I may hang on until June 2031 if there is an exciting opportunity for me with the company that purchased my business.

While my husband’s salary and trajectory are predictable, mine is not. The $375,000 in RSUs listed above is the wild card – it might be worth $375,000 or it might be worth 9x that amount when a recapitalization event occurs.

That event may occur next year, or in 2028, or tomorrow…or…or…you get the drift. That is a wide range in values and timelines that has been challenging to plan for.

I have explored the Efficient Frontier and a Risk Parity portfolio as we move closer to our prospective retirement dates. Depending on the recap multiple, I’ve also pondered just keeping everything in total market index funds and riding the waves. I see the value in liquidity so we have even contemplated selling our commercial property to eliminate all ties to a geographic region (and making all income completely passive).

Writing a personal investment policy statement is on my to-do list! I know I have more to learn.

What has been your best investment?

The business was our best investment, although it was difficult to know that at the time. Then we needed to learn how to run and grow that business.

After that, selling the business was a whole process that paid dividends as well.

What has been your worst investment?

We made some huge blunders in the course of running the business. The most notable was starting a gym as part of our core physical therapy business (see my income in 2012 above).

Let’s just say that “forging elite fitness” was a horrible financial choice – it exposed our weaknesses as business owners and severely damaged our ability to trust people. We got distracted from our core mission and the financial performance of the business made that evident.

Beyond that, the emotional toll it took on our lives was heavy.

We can’t view everything as all bad. We learned valuable lessons during that time, and I came out of that experience laser-focused and determined to make the business grow and succeed.

We both gained a love of working out and continue with garage fitness even today. Our marriage was also strengthened during that time – again, hard to see in the moment but hindsight is 20/20.

What’s been your overall return?

In 2014, when we were 15 years into marriage and 8 years into business ownership, we had a combined $45,000 in traditional retirement savings. The business was likely worth the value of the equipment only.

By 2019, that traditional retirement savings value with growth and contributions had grown to $177,000, we were building business value like crazy and started cash-flowing 3 college educations that same year. Traditional retirement value passed $500,000 in late 2023 and today is nearing $900,000.

I hope this gives late-starters hope!

Vanguard is telling me my rate of return since September 2021 is 19.30% and my 3-year return is 23.60%. This is on my rollover IRA and brokerage account only but our other accounts are allocated similarly.

How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?

I look at what the market is doing daily and if it’s going up, I will glance at our portfolio. This is down from multiple times daily early on.

I do enjoy reading articles about the “why” behind big jumps in the market…up more than down. I’ve gotten away from looking at anything on the weekend.

NET WORTH

How did you accumulate your net worth?

Our largest net worth jump occurred with the cash received as part of my business sale in 2023. We opened that business in December 2006 and sold it at the end of March 2023.

I am well-versed in EBITDA, multiples, and equity value. The structure of the sale was cash up front along with the notes payable over 4 years and the RSUs (both mentioned previously).

We did gift a portion of those RSUs to a key employee right out of the starting gate.

While we had built our brokerage account to nearly $250,000 before the sale of the business, the cash we received from the sale went there and into real estate syndications. Beyond that, we avoided debt in the early years, swore of car loans in 2014, and lived within our means.

I’ve never has a larger tax bill than I did in 2023 and I’m sure there was some tax optimization we missed…but I do not regret selling or starting the clock to a full exit. The buyer was a dream to work with in terms of negotiating goodwill vs asset value which significantly shaped net ordinary income (NOI) vs capital gains tax treatment of the sale proceeds.

The gradual “stepping out” over the last 3 years has been an absolute God-send for my mental health and excitement for the chapters to come!

What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?

Over the years, investing in ourselves as opposed to traditional investment vehicles paid off in big ways – I built a business I was able to sell and my husband steadily increased his salary through education and diligence. The fact that his federal job provides a modest pension along with affordable healthcare for us if/when we retire early is an added bonus.

This fact made 43 days last year with zero pay during the government shutdown slightly more palatable!

I was also given the gift of time when I sold the business. The last 3 years, I have had time to read, listen to podcasts, and educate myself about financial independence and more traditional investment strategies.

A random post on Facebook led to a dinner with a previous ESI Millionaire Interview participant who led me to the ESI treasure trove of resources! I plan to work on the earn and save components moving forward.

What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?

COVID was very hard on small businesses – especially in healthcare. It taught me that everything I had worked hard to build could disappear overnight – and scared me if I’m being honest.

Not only was a large portion of our net worth tied up in home equity and traditional retirement accounts, but I was far from diversified with so much being reliant on the business.

In late 2020, my only sibling died unexpectedly just weeks after her 47th birthday. While not a road bump to our financial journey, it was a major wake-up call for me.

I miss her dearly but her death taught me to look at each day as a gift and to take nothing for granted. I started looking hard at my life choices, being open to new experiences, saying “yes” more.

It also made me less tolerant of doing payroll in the wee hours of the morning and taking risk after risk with the business.

I’d have to say the biggest road bump was the frustration I experienced after “waking up” – I was angry I hadn’t made financial literacy a priority. I never knew you didn’t have to work until you were 65 and thought the stock market was kin to a casino.

I didn’t understand how traditional retirement accounts functioned nor did I care to find out. I thought the math was too complicated and only thought rich people invested – I never stopped to ask, “Well, how did they get rich?”

Curiosity is a key part of my life now so I did finally develop that muscle with age!

What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?

I make automatic savings a priority. We are continuing to maximize our traditional retirement accounts, HSA, and making biweekly contributions to our brokerage account.

I am exploring different decumulation portfolios but my strategy moving forward is leaning towards simplification pending the outcome of the recapitalization event.

Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?

I would like to see $3,750,000 in brokerage and retirement accounts – any sources of income above that would be icing on the cake.

How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?

I’m estimating we were net worth millionaires in 2019/20 when I was 42/43 and my husband was 45/46. Since I didn’t even know when this occurred, no, we did not have any significant behavior shifts.

I have made a conscious effort to shift my behavior in recent years. Purchasing the RV was a huge step for me since I was not the spender – we had never purchased anything that extravagant and the dip in the net worth graph unnerved me!

That was short-lived, however. It was a valuable exercise for me to see our accounts recover with market performance and the memory dividends for my husband and me have been immeasurable.

Likewise, I said “no” to nothing while we were in Iceland. We hiked a glacier, saw whales up close, and RVed around the entire country!

Food and experiences were not cheap there but I have regretted NOTHING related to that trip.

What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?

I love learning new things and I can make decisions quickly – having/managing a business for nearly 20 years requires both!

It was not hard for me to quickly get the money from the sale of the business invested and working.

What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?

I told myself I would learn about investing when we finally “had money” – well, that day never came due to the ups and downs of business.

Looking back, I know that starting small would have been a game-changer.

With our adult children, I am trying to pass along financial literacy so they have time on their side.

What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?

If I would have passed on the opportunity to start the business, I would have always looked back and regretted not taking action…and my poor husband would have had to live with me! I had the itch early and needed to scratch that to avoid restlessness.

Following that passion and gut desire to build my own thing paid off for us both financially and from a gratification standpoint.

FUTURE

What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?

Our goal is for my husband to retire at his minimum retirement age (MRA) of 57 in June 2031 – so 5 more school years for him! He really does enjoy his job and he’s very good at it. We estimate his pension to be worth an additional $600,000.

My commitment to my current company is up in April 2028. At that time, I may step away completely or stay on at the local or corporate level, depending on the opportunity.

I have loved the company I partnered with – I continue to work with the local team I built and adore but I’ve also gained a new work family between corporate colleagues and other exiting partners. That widening of my work network has been fun and challenging in a way I never expected.

I’m also confident I can hobby and RV my way to contentment at the age of 51 while I wait 3 years for the hubby to retire! Time will tell on this one…

What are your retirement plans?

As mentioned above, I have considered a Risk Parity portfolio as we move closer to our prospective retirement dates. If the recap multiple turns $375,000 into multiple millions, I may just keep everything in total market index funds or a simpler 3-4 fund portfolio – I am going to spend the next few years learning more about both.

We would like to pay off our home or downsize without a mortgage after recap occurs – I want that monthly expense gone despite the math. Eventually, we will also sell the commercial building to eliminate all active real estate management and ties to our geographic region.

We want to see the syndications go full cycle before deciding what to do there – we will consider 1031 exchanges or moving that money to the market depending on timing in relation to recap and retirement timelines.

Activities are not an issue – between health endeavors, traveling, hobbies, and chasing three kids across the country, our jobs are getting in the way right now!

Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?

The last 3 years have been a gift as I feel de-coupling myself from being a business owner and always being “on” would have been VERY difficult had I done it overnight. This gradual stepping away has been exactly what I needed to address the mental health and identity issues I know I would have struggled with in retirement.

If we pulled the plug right now, I would be concerned about our spend – that was a big number last year. Monarch helps me put that in perspective though and I have a good handle on our norms.

I know we can tighten travel and eating out if needed. With up to 5 more years of dual income + the recap event, I do feel like our dreams of FatFI are possible.

MISCELLANEOUS

How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?

We were Dave Ramsey followers in the early years of our marriage. While we did avoid debt, we got overwhelmed with parenting, life and starting a business and never got to the “invest 15% of your income” step.

In 2018, I “woke up” with a senior, junior and freshman in high school with ZERO college savings on our part. I was embarrassed, scared, and mad at myself.

The little we had saved was tied up in traditional retirement accounts, our home, and business.

Going through a failed business sale and reading “The Simple Path to Wealth” were the sparks I needed to finally figure it out. From that point forward, I have consumed as much as possible to get us on track to financial independence.

Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?

My husband inspires me every day – he is the calm to my storm and I know with certainty I am the best version of myself with him.

We make an amazing team and look forward to this next phase of life together while enjoying the journey!

Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?

I have to credit The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins for being “simple” and waking me up – it will always be my gateway drug of choice to deal to others!

Because the business had such a huge impact on our wealth, I have to throw out Simple Numbers, Straight Talk, Big Profits! by Greg Crabtree as a must-read for any small business owner. Again, super easy read and makes more complex ideas simple – I devoured it in a weekend.

I know that Die With Zero by Bill Perkins can be controversial but I like books that challenge the way I think. This book did that and while I don’t agree with everything in its pages, it has changed how I approach impacting our grown-ish children.

Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?

After being faithful tithers for years, we currently do not tithe or make regular contributions to charity. We have dealt with several business dealings and employee situations over the years that severely damaged our faith in people and church.

We have made attempts over the years to get back in church but have not yet had clarity on the path forward.

We do love tipping big at local restaurants we frequent – see Travel & Lifestyle and Food & Dining spend above – ha. We also support local needs when they arise and get a lot of joy contributing on the lowdown.

Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?

It would be nice to leave our three children an inheritance but my hope is they do not expect or need our money. We are actively trying to impact their lives right now while they are starting out through financial literacy education, help with Roth IRA funding, and possibly another vehicle before being fully off payroll.

All three have either completed or are in the process of completing a college degree without debt – our parents did that for us and it was a goal to provide that for our kids as well.

We did complete estate planning last year and I continue to make sure everything is passing into the trust. We also changed the executor from one of our children to our lawyer – this after witnessing the death of family members ruin familial relationships.

I want nothing threatening the relationship between our kids – adult relationships are hard enough without throwing that in the mix!