Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
My questions are in bold italics and his responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
My wife and I are both 30.
We’ve been married for 6 years.
We met in college.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
We have a 2 year old and hope to have another one in the future.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
We recently left San Francisco and moved to the suburbs of a warm state with no income taxes. 🙂
What is your current net worth?
$1.4M
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
- 670k – Vanguard taxable brokerage
- 500k – Vanguard and Fidelity 401ks + IRAs
- 90k – Vanguard 529
- 15k – US Treasury bonds given to us as kids
- 15k – cash
- 410k – home (300k – mortgage)
Allocation of brokerage + retirement accounts + 529:
- 72% US stocks
- 18% International stocks
- 8% REITs
EARN
What is your job?
I’m a mid level industrial designer.
I spend some of my time leading teams and projects. I get to come up with new ideas and make stuff all day long!
My wife is a software engineer.
What is your annual income?
I make a $115k salary + a performance based bonus which was $25k last year.
My wife makes a $70k salary + around $100k in RSUs which depend on stock price.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
When I graduated from college in 2010 (debt free thanks to my generous parents) there were very few job postings for industrial designers, which is what I wanted to be. I believe this was due to the recession.
The few jobs I applied for I did not get.
I found a 3-month internship that paid $1,000 a month and was an amazing learning opportunity.
I then landed an internship at another company to last me through the rest of 2010. This internship then turned into my first full time job at 50k a year! I was finally a real designer!
A year later I switched to my current job in San Francisco starting at $70k a year which has steadily grown to its current level after improving my skills and proving my value.
My wife accepted a job offer a year before she graduated (man, she rocks)!
She also graduated debt free thanks to her generous parents and a 50% merit scholarship (man, she’s smart)!
Her starting salary was $80k which quickly grew to $270k as she became a manager and was awarded RSUs (man, she’s a money makin machine, glad I married her)!
She began working from home a couple of years ago to raise our kid full time. She works 20 hours a week at half pay.
We left San Francisco last year and bought a house in a more affordable state closer to family. We both work the same jobs for our same employers from our new home!
Neither of us have more than a 4-year bachelors degree. I believe a big part of growing our net worth at a relatively young age was starting to work right after graduating rather than spending more time and money in school.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
Do not work long hours. Work smart, efficiently, and hard. I say this for a bit of dramatic effect.
I’ve certainly had my share of intense, long-hour weeks and still do sometimes. What I mean is it’s much more important how you work rather than how many hours you work.
Strive to be as effective as possible. Can you accomplish in 40 hours what others do in 60? Your employer will appreciate this. Your spouse will appreciate this. Your kids will appreciate this. You will appreciate this.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
Working from home is great so far, and there’s no commute!
We’ve always made time to exercise an hour a day since it’s important to us.
I’ve always loved my job and often don’t want to stop working on projects; I wish there were more hours in the day.
Someone told me the opposite of play is not work, but boredom. I like this way of thinking. What I do for work is fun and I often look forward to it.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
Last year we made $25k in dividends; half in our taxable account and half in our retirement accounts. I don’t target high dividend stocks at the moment.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
Last year we spent $72k.
$42k of that was on rent in San Francisco. The PITI on our new house will cost us $28k a year.
That’s a big savings, and we will be buying something.
And, we will no longer be paying state income taxes! So long, California. I do expect additional costs to appear this year such as home improvement, preschool, and plane tickets for the kiddo.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
We started using Personal Capital a few years ago. It is soooo easy to track expenses. Here are our stats from last year:
- 42k – Rent (this will now decrease to 28k in PITI)
- 8k – Groceries (I love me a good steak, a 6 pack of craft beer, and shopping at Trader Joe’s)
- 5k – Travel
- 4k – General Merchandise
- 3k – Exercise Classes
- 2k – House Cleaner
- 2k – Utilities
- 1k – Restaurants
- 1k – Medical
- 1k – Clothing/Shoes
- 1k – Kid Activities
- 700 – Gas (we’ve never used a car to commute)
- 700 – Car Insurance (we own one car)
- 600 – Other
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
No, we’ve never had a budget.
We spend freely and always seem to have plenty of extra cash to invest in stocks.
We prefer to have a few nice things rather than lots of things. In fact, we kind of get a thrill out of giving things away to goodwill.
Marie Kondo would have nothing to do to our home.
We like cooking and eat at home almost every night, which yields leftovers for the next day’s lunch.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
We’ve always saved 70-80% of our after-tax income.
As our income grew, this became a lot of money to invest in the market each year.
Saving a large percentage of your take-home pay will put you an the fast track to FI.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
Nicely designed, quality furniture. I’m a designer after all. I like a good Eames chair.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
I’ve always done our investing.
I buy and hold low cost index mutual funds exclusively in Vanguard and Fidelity and reinvest the dividends. The average expense ratio of all our stock assets is 0.07%. I am very proud of this number. Probably more proud of this than our net worth number.
I’ve never bought an individual company stock.
The last time I sold a share in a taxable account was 2012.
We also lump sum invest as much as we can rather than dollar cost averaging. We sell my wife’s RSUs as soon as they are granted and buy index funds with the proceeds.
We also front-load our 401ks, contributing 100% of our paychecks until we hit the limit.
I sometimes wonder if I should get into tax-loss harvesting via a robo-advisor.
What has been your best investment?
In January 2010 I found myself with some extra cash from jobs I was working in college. I asked my dad what to do with it. He told me to put it into a Vanguard Roth IRA. I purchased 5k of the Vanguard Small-Cap Index.
This was the first stock I ever bought and watching it grow (27% that year) got me hooked on buying index funds.
What has been your worst investment?
I prefer to view my primary residence as a liability rather than an investment since it takes money out of my pocket every month via upkeep and mortgage payments. Therefore, the house we just bought is probably our worst investment.
What’s been your overall return?
We’ve made about $300k in investment returns (unrealized market gains + dividends) which is something like 7-8% annualized returns.
This number is volatile since our net worth mirrors the ups and downs of the market.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
Once or twice a week for a few minutes. Personal Capital makes this very quick and easy. I spend much more time reading FIRE stuff online.
I rebalance and change asset allocation by purchasing new shares with incoming money from our salaries.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
Around 80% of our net worth has come from saving money we earned from our jobs.
We’ve consistently purchased $150-$200k of stock index funds each of the past few years.
Our investment returns are not consistent year to year. In 2017 we saw over 200k in returns and in 2018 we saw negative 75k in returns.
What is consistent is our earning, saving, and investing. That’s how it took us 6 years to accumulate $1M.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
Saving.
We started our life in San Francisco living in a 400 square foot studio. Six years later we were in a 900 square foot 2-1.
We’ve always spent well below our means even though we buy whatever we want whenever we want. I guess we’re just not that creative.
We did not buy a car until we were 27 and a house until we were 30.
You’ll notice I don’t do anything fancy investment-wise. I do optimize things like expense ratios and asset location (all REITs are in tax sheltered accounts).
Investing is soooo easy. I just login to Vanguard and transfer money form my checking account to an index fund. It takes like, 2 minutes.
Earning and saving take much more effort and focus.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
We’ve had a smooth ride so far. 🙂
The market has steadily gone up over the time we’ve invested.
I hope to stay cool and buy lots of stocks during the next recession.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
Well, leaving California was a big move.
California state taxes and rent were large expenses for us.
Hopefully our salaries will continue to increase and our expenses will stay low.
We just continue to plow all extra cash into index funds as soon as we have it.
If there happens to be a market correction (which has been rare over my investment lifetime) I throw as much cash as I can into the market. I’d rather buy when the market is down than have an over-sized emergency fund. I bought $30k of stock index funds on Jan 3rd.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
I’ve never had a target, but since you’re asking, it’s about time I came up with one.
The standard FI calculation of 25 x spending puts us at around $1.75M.
I’ll aim for the point at which my dividends pay for my expenses, which I’d say is $3.5-$4M.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
We were 28. It was anti-climatic. I said to my wife, “Hey, guess what happened today?” and she said, “We hit 1M?” and I said, “Ya” and that was it.
I get way more excited when Vanguard lowers their expense ratios.
We feel more empowered as we get closer to FI. I told my employer I had bought a house in another state and was moving. I was prepared to start my own business, but they offered to keep me on! I never would have done this if we were not financially stable.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
We purchased our first and only car brand spankin’ new in 2015. This was before I read MMM and The Millionaire Next Door.
In retrospect, I wish I had bought a used version of the same car. A new car just seems like a waste of money to me now.
I do plan to use this car for 20 years and I hope we can get by without needing another car.
In 2012 I sold some shares of an index fund that had higher expense rations than I wanted. When I did my taxes I discovered I had to pay short-term capital gains!
I did not know there were short vs. long-term gains or that you have to pay tax when they are realized. I have not realized any short-term gains since. In fact, I have not realized any long-term gains either.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
Focus on optimization and efficiency, which comes in many forms.
Live near work; don’t waste time and money commuting.
Be as productive as you can within a 40 hour work week.
Get your expense ratios as low as possible. Do it now!
Get your work done and get home so you can spend time with your family and read FI blogs.
What do you do to increase efficiency in your life?
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
We have it pretty good working from home at the moment.
We both exercise and spend quality time with the little one.
I’ve been spending a lot of time on home improvement projects.
I hope to continue to learn more about home maintenance and take on more complicated projects.
My wife and I have always talked about starting a business together, combining our unique skills. I hope to make this happen at some point.
What are your retirement plans?
I love what I do.
I will always be designing and making things the rest of my life, whether it is for an employer of for myself.
Traditional retirement age is too far away for me to realistically visualize.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
88% our tax sheltered assets are held in traditional IRAs and 401ks which will be inaccessible to us for a long time and then have RMDs.
I hope to utilize the backdoor Roth conversion at some point.
If I were to quit my job and start my own business I’d have to pay for health insurance for my family. Just another expense to plan for I suppose.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it ‘click’? Was it from family, books, forced to learn as wealth grew, etc.?
My dad has been a great resource and I’ve mostly followed his investing philosophy. He told me to put money into Vanguard my senior year of collage and ever since then I’ve spent many a late night consuming books, blogs, and podcasts on the subject of financial independence and investing.
One of my favorite books is The Millionaire Next Door.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
My heroes have always been master craftsmen: famous woodworkers, animators, artists, model makers. Those who excel in their craft keep me inspired and remind me how much more I can grow.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
Giving in the form of time and appreciated stock is something I look forward to doing more of in the future.
We’ve always given cash to various charities since graduating from college, but it hasn’t amounted to much.
My wife’s employer matches a certain amount of her charitable contributions which is awesome!
I plan to open a Vanguard DAF at some point.
I love teaching design, and hope to give back in that way as well.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
We have not discussed this. I optimistically imagine my heirs will not need an inheritance and I will give the majority of it to charity.
Question for the readers: We’re still relatively young, with time on our side. What else should we consider doing to improve our financial profile?
Enjoy your path to, or life of FI!
GT says
Congrats you have done well at your age and sounds like you are well situated for the future.
You have lived though a dream market period and looks like you took advantage.
Leaving school without debt was a big step in the right direction. You say 80% of your net worth is from savings from work? What’s the other 20%?
Being willing to relocate is a big step I went the other route and stayed in California but grew my earnings to more than make up for it.
Lastly a great job on the 529 plan already. I probably wouldn’t put much more in that fund given your daughters age.
M132 says
Thanks! The other 20% of our new worth is from investment returns (unrealized market gains + dividends).
Yes, we’re thinking the same thing about the 529; we may not put any more into it unless we have another kid.
Chuckk says
You have an awesome start as a young couple, with some financial savvy that I wish I had when I was 30. The only advice I would give is to bite the bullet and make the Roth IRA conversion. The longer it grows as a Roth, the less you will pay in taxes.
M132 says
Thanks for the advice. I’ll definitely think about that. I wonder if I should have been doing the Roth conversion for the past few years. Do you have any blog posts you’d recommend I read about the subject?
The Crusher says
Congrats, you are sooooo young to be reaching these types of financial milestones. Kudos to you and your wife for having your sh*t together so early in life!
Pete says
I was chuckling while reading this since my wife and I agree with so many things that you recommend and do. From keeping commutes short to being efficient in just about everything there was a lot I agree with already. Thanks for sharing your story and nicely done.
M132 says
Nice, a fellow efficiency enthusiast! Do you have any anecdotes or words of wisdom on the subject?
Pete says
I’m sorry, I don’t have anything to add that you don’t already know. Your patience will obviously be rewarded and just stick to the plan. By total net worth and percentage you save and have already, you are ahead of us.
I might highlight the giving bit. You already do and want to give more. That is a source of enjoyment for my wife and me. We too want to basically leave it all to charity when we die. Preferably as comically oversized novelty checks.
RI-6 says
Congrats on being so young and so together not only financially but emotionally.
Based on what you wrote I would say your best “investment” was finding your partner. It is simply priceless to find someone that shares your values and goals. Your best investment going forward is making sure she always knows that she’s the most important thing in your life (sounds like you’re already doing that but never let it stop).
At some point, maybe sooner than later, you’ll decide to stop working for someone else. Whether that means retiring to do what you want when you want or starting your own business, you’re gonna need some cash you can get your hands on. My suggestion would be to focus on more after-tax investments. It can be very frustrating to have all your nest egg dollars tied up until you’re 59.5.
In any case, congrats again on your success and best wishes for what appears to be a very bright future!
(Retirement interview # 6 and Millionaire #55)
M132 says
Thanks for the advice and wisdom. I’ve almost finished reading all of the millionaire interviews then on to the retirement ones! Looking forward to reading yours.
Mac says
You should take your Dad to the finest steak house in town for all he has done for you. Not only did he help fund your college education, but he also taught you what to do with FI, or he got you going in the right direction with it giving you spot on advice. There is a proverb that says to honor the Lord with your wealth, the first fruits of your produce (3:9). I would keep that one in mind along your FI journey. I would be interested to know in addition to ESI Money blog and Millionaire Next Door book, what are your favorite FI books, blogs and podcasts. Maybe could be provided and added in post.
M132 says
Haha, thanks! I wonder if I should show this post and comments to my dad.
I started consuming FI stuff only a few years ago, so I still have a long list of books to read. My favorites so far are:
Books: Millionaire Next Door, the little book of common sense investing by Bogle, Rich Dad Poor Dad and Cashflow Quadrant (I like Kiyosaki because he challenges me to think differently).
Blogs: Mr. Money Mustache, Mad Fientist, ESI.
Podcasts: How I Built This, Millionaires Unveiled, Mad Fientist, Dough Roller Money.
Recently I’ve enjoyed anecdotal interviews like ESI and Millionaires Unveiled because it’s hard to hear stories like this, broach the subject, and dig into the details offline.
Mac says
ESI is wonderful very professionally done. Thanks for sharing. Kiyosaki was a game changer for me too when I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I’m reading the Bogleheads Guide right now and read Mr. Larimore’s book. You might try The Money Code by HW Charles, another game changer FI book.
Dan M says
You two are sooooo far ahead of the game and are a model for others to follow. At your trajectory, you could have serious money problems by 50 like decamillionaire status.
I’m in my mid 40s and you two are my latest idols and your dad is freaking AWESOME! I wish I had that mentoring early in my life, big bonus.
Congrats and bravo!
M132 says
Thanks! Looking forward to having serious money problems 🙂
Jim says
Excellent job! I am also fortunate to have married well, having a strong partner it a high benefit. It looks like you have a mortgage, I would cash out non retirement investments to pay that of a your earliest convenience. Would you take a loan on your house to put it in the market? Paying any debt in your situation is a waste of money. Second, invest as much of your retirement funds in Roth as possible. Most companies have a Roth 401k option plus the additional after tax IRA rolled into a Roth for each of you. Last since you seem to enjoy home improvements, rental units might be considered as another option(paid for in cash) I know you have REIT’s so that might fulfill that. Honestly great job, just avoid as many future taxes as possible, not sure the tax rates will ever be lower than they are right now. Lastly, up that vacation category to about 20k -30k per year. You only live once, go see the world, it’s the best gift you can give you and your family. Money is great, but it’s only a tool, enjoy some of it.
Clay says
I agee that vacations and seeing the world are an important part of life, but 20-30k seems extravagant, can you comment on how you would envision such amount in a year while fully employed?
I’ve been lucky to travel extensively, but would have difficulty to spend such amounts in a year. Even places like Tokyo and London I’ve managed to find reasonably priced hotel rooms.
Are you considering extensive travel (substantially beyond normal vacation days) or extravagant travel, eg. business class flights, taxis everywhere (subway lover myself) and luxury hotel rooms?
Just my opinion, but 5k seems reasonable, and more than 10k seems excessive.
Anies says
Hi! Do you recommending moving out of the expensive state? I guess it’s silly question, but is it really that big difference and you dont’s miss big city? I am so hooked to move from NY to NC but need to be sure 100% before moving all my family. Wonder other views on this…
M132 says
One of the reasons we moved was to be closer to family and that has really been nice, both for us and our 2 year old. We sill live near a big city, just not such an expensive one. We paid ~25k in CA state taxes last year which will now be zero since there are no state income taxes here. Housing prices are much cheaper here than in SF so buying a house is way less stressful. We are happy we made the move, but maybe others can offer more specific advice on the subject.
MI-94 says
Great job. You are way ahead of the game. You are an engineer, you married well, you live well below your means and they you invest what’s left – that’s me! Clearly, if you keep it up and you are well on your way to a comfortable life.
A few comments/suggestions from a dude a few years ahead of you, but on a similar path; Remain a “stealth rich guy” and don’t fall for any temptations to keep up with the neighbors on cars, big houses etc. Keep your wealth on the down low. Your happiness is going to come from your kids and your family. I am a few years ahead of you, my oldest is now almost 15, youngest is 12 and our NW is a little over $3.8M. (up $300k from when i did my MI-94 interview in October 2018) We remain in stealth mode living just like all our modest neighbors. Few realize the position we are in, and we like it that way. Even family are not aware. Now that I realize my kid leaving home is only 3 years away, my one regret is I did not spend a bit more of our money on experiences and vacations with the family. I was so focused on being cheap, that we missed on some stuff we really could have done. We took some trips and vacations, but always on the cheap and rarely for more than a week or two. Once the kids are grown, you don’t get to go back and do it again. I now look back at the photos of our limited and economical trips we took and now think “we should have done more of that”. The financial hit to our networth today would not have been that significant, and it probably would have been worth it. It is said all the time “you can’t take it with you”. It’s true. I would trade my money to go back and do all the little kid stuff again. By far the best time of my life was kids ages 0-10, don’t miss out on any of that and squeeze as much as you can out of it, without spoiling the kids and turning them into entitled monsters (this is a risk for you….wealth can create awful kids, I have seen it). Having money and kids gives you the option to do absolutely everything for your kids…. It also gives you the option to do too much. This can backfire. You will have to make an effort to actually hold back and deprive them your kids a bit more than your networth says you should in order to prevent creating problem teens/adults. Add to your reading list “The Blessing Of A Skinned Knee: Raising Self-Reliant Children” I have read exactly one book on kids, and this was it. Excellent. Read it! Its all about more is not necessarily better and often good enough is just fine.
Home ownership is way overrated. If you are cool renting, rent. I miss the simplicity and flexibility of renting. Having a home in CA (and the property taxes) feels like a burden to me. My wife has a need to nest…so we agree to disagree on this one. James Altucher writes some interesting stuff you might want to read. He was mega rich, broke and rich again. He says on renting “Choices. I feel when I rent I always have the choice to leave. To live wherever in the world I want whenever I want. Adventure becomes a possibility even if I never take advantage of it.” Kind of an interesting take.
Enjoy leaving CA – I think about it all the time. This place is not what it used to be. If we did not have family connections here, we would flee ASAP.
Be ready – The market will turn again. Assume it will happen again. I have been through huge downturns twice now. You will see your networth plummet. Don’t panic, just ride it out, keep investing and if you can, invest more. Its a pendulum and will swing back up eventually. (with about a 10 year natural frequency…physics/engineering reference you).
Great job! and go have fun with the kid…and hopefully future kids.
Phillip says
MI-94. I hear ya as we’re in a similar situation. Don’t kick yourself too much as younger kids have just as much fun hiking/skiing in the back country of your local mountains as they would have in the Alps. We also took local trips instead of expensive overseas trips to save money even though we could afford it. Now I’m looking at piles of money and older kids (still not that old at 12 and 14). But it’s the quality time you spend with the family, not the place that you go. I’m sure its going to be much harder to take 2 weeks+ off for a family trip as the kids get older but we’ll make it to Europe and Asia someday. And I think they will like it more when we go since I think older kids will appreciate the trip’s “sophistication” more.
MI-94 says
Someday…we too will take that more sophisticated trip, but agree quality is better than high cost!
M132 says
Thanks for the advice and book recommendation. I will indeed strive to maintain stealth wealth and I look forward to some fun trips with the kid(s) in the coming years. I really enjoyed my time living in CA, but in my opinion nothing beats living close to family when you have kids.
117 says
Love the comments on the kids and trips. You are right and you can never get those days back. It’s hard to strike the right balance. We weren’t ‘cheap’ and did some great trips. We also did a lot of camping that the kids loved although it was torture to me. Lol. If I was cheaper maybe I’d have more millions. Lol. Thing is my kids are out of college and are working now. We wanted to do a big Europe or Alaska trip as a family. Kids don’t have the flexibility we do so it might not happen. I have the money but they don’t have the time. Sure you can have great times without a lot of money- but if you are living a modest life, don’t be afraid to spend a little extra now and then.
MI-94 says
Yep – all our best memories are from camping, can’t get much cheaper than that! Lots of great memories in tents doing lots of stuff that once you get yourself there is nearly free.
Dez says
Wouldn’t it be great if everyone’s parents were this generous
Kathryn says
I definitely recommend learning more about how taxes work to optimize you future overall wealth. As you said, there are opportunities such as Roth conversions and tax loss harvesting that can help you keep more of your money (and reach FI faster!). It adds up, just as much as paying attention to those investing fees!
JessieG says
Bravo! Outstanding work! You proved what Stash and GCC (and others) have been saying for years. The math is flawless. Best wishes on an amazing future!
MMiguel says
MI-132 – Congrats on what looks to be textbook perfect execution on the Millionaire Next Door concept. It’s great that both your parents and in-laws allowed you and wife to gain an education debt-free. I finished undergrad 30 years ago with what in today’s dollars would be close to $100,000 in debt.
As a landlord, I see high-income professionals carrying upwards of $300,000 debt in some cases (incl. grad degree loans) and my rentals are not cheap! I’m sure you’d be chugging along without the parent help, but what I’ve experienced and seen with others is that the debt creates a lot of anxiety, moral hazard, limited choices/flexibility, and risk aversion (in a bad way), so be very thankful to your parents to have avoided all that.
Your story also illustrates the power of strong role models – it sounds like your Dad was a great coach and mentor. And of course, looks like you did a lot to educate yourself as well. Sorry if I missed, but what was your Dad’s profession? Also engineer?
M132 says
Thanks! I hope to be a great role model for my children as well. My Dad is a small business owner.