Millionaire Interview 469

Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.

If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.

This interview took place in March.

My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.

Let’s get started…

OVERVIEW

How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?

My husband and I are both 41.

We have been married for 12 years.

Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?

We have two boys, one is 9 and one is about to turn 7.

What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?

We live in a small HCOL city, which is a suburb of a large midwestern city.

Our lifestyle feels quite urban (we walk everywhere) despite being in the suburbs.

What is your current net worth?

As of this writing, our net worth is $3,618,277, not including our home.

What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?

Our net worth is broken down as follows…

$3,288,277 invested in the market – approximately 1.2M in 401k/403b, 381K in Roth, 61K in HSA, 1.65M in taxable brokerage, and around 5K in crypto. We also have 50K cash in a HYSA that we use as both an emergency fund and sinking fund.

We try to keep it around 50K as an emergency baseline, and then when we are saving for something like a vacation, home improvement, etc, we will bring it up to around 100K.

Once we hit the amount we need over the 50k, we are free to spend it on whatever we are saving for.

We also have made around 275k in initial investments into various syndicated real estate products. These produce a small amount of income quarterly and hopefully will return when the buildings are sold.

Finally, our net worth does not include our children’s 529s since we don’t consider that our money. They each have around 60K in their accounts.

It also does not include our home equity in our primary residence. For that, we are around 11 years into a 30-year mortgage at 3.5% and have 350K left, with around 350K in home equity based on current conservative valuations.

EARN

What is your job?

I am a primary care physician. I own my own small practice and earn around 275K per year, after expenses but before taxes.

My husband is also a primary care physician who works as an employee. He earns 330K, and our benefits are through his job.

He also is starting his own business that is currently cashflow neutral and does occasional consulting work on the side. We are very satisfied with our earnings, considering that primary care is a lower-paid specialty and we have chosen to make decisions based on family needs and flexibility rather than income.

What is your annual income?

In 2025 we made $605,000 and will probably be similar in 2026. 

Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?

I have worked since I was around 12, starting out babysitting, then lifeguarding, and then working in restaurants through college. I don’t recall exact amounts but it was always minimum wage or just above.

I found working in restaurants was very lucrative for a regular high school and college kid and taught us how to deal with people. I think everyone should work in some sort of service industry when they are young.

My spouse also worked since he was young, though his was more entrepreneurial, such as doing car detailing or computer repair for his community. We only had one year between college and medical school.

In medical school, you cannot hold a full-time job, though we both did tutoring and volunteering.

After medical school, we both went straight into residency. From there, we worked typical resident salaries, approximately 45K-55K year with nominal COL increases each year.

Looking back, we did not have any children, and we lived in a very small rental house, keeping our expenses in check, so it was more than enough for us. Because of the time constraints of residency, we did not travel much.

Most of our meals were at the hospital, maximizing the free food.

I then graduated my residency and took an additional chief resident year. This year my salary rose from 55K to 101K.

This year was a combination of working, attending shifts, teaching, and administration. This was probably a poor financial decision, but helped significantly in establishing me as a leader in my local healthcare community and taught me a lot about healthcare administration and the business of medicine.

It was also a nice way to bridge from being a trainee to an attending, having a community of physicians to run things by.

From there, I was hired into the academic faculty practice, 50% teaching and 50% seeing patients. My initial salary was 150K, and this was after negotiating hard.

In fact, I was criticized for heavily negotiating at the time, but then they realized that the other academic faculty were all underpaid and brought everyone’s salaries up. I remained in this position for 5 years.

There were no raises built in, but we would get additional clinical pay based on increased RVUs so my salary went up from 165K to 230K over this period. I also made decisions that increased my pay, such as reducing my clinical FTE (full time equivalent) down and adding teaching hours, but then maintaining my clinical volume, which increased my pay, but I was essentially working a 1.2FTE (120% of a full time job) during this time.

We also went 3 years without taking any vacation since vacations were unpaid. On average I worked around 60 hours per week.

My spouse’s income trajectory was similar.

4 years after residency graduation we had our first child in 2017. I took 10 weeks of maternity leave — 6 were paid, and 4 were unpaid.

2 years later in 2019, our second child was born, and I took 9 weeks of leave. Looking back, we made it work, but it makes me sad now to realize just how exhausted and stressful this time was.

During the pandemic, we had a terrible experience where we were basically ‘redeployed’ by the healthcare system to fill various gaps in inpatient care without regard to the needs of our patient panels or our family. We did our service, but ended up working 100+ hours per week because the needs of the outpatient world didn’t decrease just because we were needed in the hospital.

I ended up cutting back to 0.8FTE in 2020 and giving up much of my academic time, but still ended up working 60 hours per week at part-time pay. I made around 180K this year.

After this experience, I decided that one of us would need to be self-employed to work on our own terms, and decided to leave my faculty job and open my own practice. I gave notice in May of 2021 (being told I would fail miserably by the hospital administration) and left in August 2021.

In October 2021 I saw my first patients in my new practice. In 2021 and 2022 I made around 215K.

Each year my income has risen somewhat, to my highest of 275K in 2025. I intentionally keep my practice panel small and keep my expenses extremely low in order to bring home this income while also maintaining control of my schedule.

2016 to 2022 my husband’s income went from around 200K to 250K. In 2023, he took on additional leadership responsibilities at work as well as intensive call and brought his income to 440K.

In 2025, he made the decision to drop some of those responsibilities at work, receiving a 25% pay cut, to be more available for our family and to focus on some of his other professional interests. He currently is now earning 330K so in 2025, we earned a combined total of 605K.

What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?

We have found that the most important thing is to not be close-minded and to be open to new opportunities. We have held various versions of our jobs over the years, all with different balances of income and responsibility.

We have also taken risks that have paid off when people thought we were crazy. I think that, especially for physicians, and even more especially for primary care physicians who may have been told that they are ‘less than’ by the specialty-focused medical system, it is important to recognize your worth, knowledge, and skill.

We physicians do not have to be boxed into the typical employed grind of the system; we can adapt and evolve as our lives demand.

What’s your work-life balance look like?

Currently, our work-life balance is a dream. I see patients 9:30a-3:30p M-F so I can get my kids on and off the bus at school.

I will also often block off a few hours here or there to attend school activities, manage my kids’ doctor’s appointments, etc. I am on call for my patients 24/7 but never work nights and weekends outside of answering phone calls.

In addition, my husband’s work-life balance is also excellent. He is in a position where he is on call 24/7 as well and sometimes has to go manage a medical situation, but that is offset by often having entirely full days off work.

We have a child with some special needs so we have been able to balance that well with continuing our careers. I think our willingness to give up on some earning opportunities has paid off in spades for being available during these early elementary years.

Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?

Not really. My husband is starting a business, but currently reinvesting everything into the business.

We occasionally get checks from our real estate investments (like $200/quarter), but these amounts are not significant.

SAVE

What is your annual spending?

In 2025, we spent 230K before taxes, which was very high for us because it included a 50K home renovation.

Our typical spending is closer to 180K per year before taxes.

What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?

This has changed over the years. We have always kept our housing costs very low.

Our mortgage payment is 2020/month and I don’t even notice it. We live in a ‘high tax’ city but because our home price was low, this has remained stable around 10K per year and we benefit from very strong public schools and city and park infrastructure.

Also, a small house brings small utility costs, and we take active steps to keep these costs down, such as prioritizing energy-efficient improvements and limiting our use of excessive AC or heat in those seasons.

We were fortunate to buy into a neighborhood in 2014 at a relatively low price and watch the home prices DOUBLE in the past 10 years. I sleep much better at night knowing that we are not house poor and we could pay off our mortgage anytime if we wanted to.

That said, there is a tradeoff. Space is tight in our house, and we have had to spend a lot over the years fixing it up/bringing it into this century.

We sometimes fantasize about moving into a bigger or nicer house, but would have to spend triple to stay in our neighborhood that we love.

We also used to pay quite a bit for childcare. At its peak, we were paying around 35K per year in full-time childcare.

We did choose daycare over a nanny due to cost, but also because I feel like my children learned valuable social skills in daycare, and we have met incredible friends through it.

We did temporarily employ a nanny during COVID when the daycare was closed, and also in 2019 when my youngest son was born and there was a local measles outbreak. Now the kids are school-age but we still piece together full-time childcare through various summer camps, sports activities, and school-break camps.

We are still averaging around 25K per year in childcare if we include the kids activities in that. We do have local grandparents but cannot rely on them for childcare.

Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?

We budgeted very strictly from 2015-2020 as we were paying off our medical school loans, having children, and making various job changes. Since 2021, we no longer budget, but I do review our spending in certain domains (food, travel, healthcare OOP, home improvement, Amazon!) on a monthly and annual basis.

I tend to take the lead on budgeting and tracking, but my spouse and I have regular open conversations about it.

What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?

In 2025 we saved 30% of our gross and 46% of our net. This is actually down from 2022-2024, where we were saving closer to 40% of our gross and 60% of our net.

This was a conscious decision to put in a new kitchen (to get rid of the 1950s formica with marker stains on it we had lived with for the past 10 years!)

What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?

Living below your means, for sure.

As one can probably see, my natural tendency is to save. I actually have trouble spending, even when I know we could comfortably spend more.

I grew up in a family that NEVER lacked for money but my father worked very hard and was very burnt out near the end of his career with lots of issues. I also was diagnosed with a chronic illness in 2019 that is currently managed, but could disable me at anytime.

Because of this, I value the opportunity to be able to ‘walk away’ at any time with enough saved.

We also started saving as soon as we could – we always tried to max our Roth accounts in residency and live well below our means. My kids constantly ask “are we poor?” since we have the smallest house in our community and don’t belong to any country clubs.

We like it that way.

Finally, I think our best move was to pay down our medical school loans aggressively. My husband and I were fortunate to graduate with relatively low med school loans (150K for him, 250K for me) and pay them off in full by making extra payments in 4 years.

At the time, all the emphasis was on PSLF, but had we elected for that, we would not be in fortunate situation we are now with me working for myself and him working for a private company. Getting rid of our loans quickly by living like a resident allowed us to quickly switch our focus to saving and investing.

We really have only been growing our wealth since 2019 when our loan payoff was complete.

What’s your best tip for spending less money?

Low housing costs, buying affordable reliable cars cash and driving them into the ground, and keeping food expenses in check.

What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?

Recently, our travel has been increasing. 2025 was the first year that we went away during most of the school holidays rather than putting the kids in camp and working through them.

Previously, we avoided it because I was hesitant of the lost earnings during this time and traveling during peak weeks. We are not traveling luxuriously either, but it has helped with our long Midwest winter to get out of town.

Also, we don’t skimp on our kids’ camp expenses. We send our children to really nice summer camps, especially since we don’t pay for a country club or have access to a pool otherwise.

INVEST

What is your investment philosophy/plan?

Buy and hold, low-cost index funds, 3-fund portfolio, maximizing tax advantage.

What has been your best investment?

Paying off our student loans quickly. Other than that, it is hard for us to say since we’ve really only prioritized investing in the past 10 years, and it has been such an incredible market.

I would say dollar cost averaging, rather than one specific investment.

What has been your worst investment?

We are fortunate to not have made many mistakes. We did invest about 8K into crypto to ‘try it out’ and that is down to 5K, so that is likely our worst.

I am glad we didn’t invest more. Also, we are involved in some syndicated real estate that may be a bust, but so far that has not happened.

What’s been your overall return?

I think around 15-25% – again, the market has been on a tear.

How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?

Monthly.

NET WORTH

How did you accumulate your net worth?

I think it has been a combination of earning a high income (and actively making decisions that support that income), aggressively advocating for ourselves, living well below our means, paying off debt quickly, and limiting lifestyle inflation.

However, I would be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge that were born on 3rd base. I personally never had to worry about money when I was young.

I went to college on an athletic scholarship, but left the team in my junior year due to injuries and burnout, and my parents were able to cover the costs of the last 1.5 years of college. I will say that I selected a low-cost state school that offered me a college, rather than the variety of excellent private schools that I got into without financial support.

I was also put in a place where I had a varied childhood that allowed me to develop the skills to earn this scholarship. In med school, I was able to take out educational expenses only and my parents covered my essential living expenses, such as rent and health insurance.

I did cover my own food and fun money while in college.

My husband was also born on 3rd base. Education is important to his family, and his parents paid for all his undergrad and living expenses as long as we he went to the in-state public school.

They also paid his living expenses in medical school. This is how we were able to graduate with relatively low medical school debt.

Then, in 2016, my grandfather died, and I received a 35K inheritance, of which I put 100% to my student loans.

I also feel that we are earning very healthy incomes in primary care with much more work-life balance than many of the more highly compensated specialists.

What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?

Probably save, then earn.

I guess invest in the future, but we have only been investing for less than a decade.

What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?

We really haven’t had too many road bumps. We got a late start, having a negative net worth into our early 30s.

We also had to sacrifice most of our 20s. I have only been out of the country once, and would like to have traveled more.

I also wish I had more experiences before being diagnosed with my chronic disease. That said, our lives have been very fortunate, and I am grateful. No complaints.

What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?

I want to make sure we continue to avoid lifestyle creep.

We would like my husband’s business to become successful so that can contribute to our income and he can potentially reduce his clinical hours.

Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?

I would ideally like to retire with $10 million. I could see myself retiring around age 55.

I love what I do. My husband would happily retire today if he could.

How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?

Our first million was around age 37.

Since then we have increased our travel somewhat and made some expensive home renovations, but otherwise not really.

What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?

I am a natural saver and I really enjoy personal finance. We never had a financial advisor because I read so much on it I felt comfortable doing it myself.

That said, I struggle to spend and probably would benefit from that a bit more as well.

What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?

I don’t think we have made any money mistakes, but I could see over-saving or excessive frugality being a mistake I look down on in the future.

What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?

Stay the course.

FUTURE

What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?

We would like to retire in our 50s, my spouse possibly earlier. We both love the outdoors and have various endurance sport pursuits.

We also love to ski. Rather than retire, I’d like to maintain my excellent work-life balance so I can continue to enjoy these pursuits while also enjoying my work.

I also would like to travel more and be more comfortable with taking extended time away (my current longest vacation ever has been 6 days) and paying someone to cover my practice.

We do have one child who is a bit challenging, and I wonder if he will be able to live independently. I want to make sure that we are set up for both ourselves and for him if he needs extra support in early adulthood.

What are your retirement plans?

We love where we live, so no plans to move, though eventually would probably need to get a first-floor bedroom. I want to escape the snowy Midwest for 1 month each winter.

I want to spend significant parts of my week skiing, hiking, and running. I’d love to slow travel in Europe.

I love to cook, so dedicate more time to meals. I also fantasize about going to culinary school.

Finally, if grandchildren are in our future, I’d love to have an active role in their lives and support my children in raising them.

Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?

I worry that my chronic illness may become uncontrolled, and I no longer have my health. I worry something catastrophic may happen to my family, and I think this is part of my tendency to save so aggressively.

I worry about healthcare costs, especially if we retire early, especially since our healthcare is through my husband’s job, and he is burning out a bit on clinical care. I worry about the long term care of my parents, who are financially comfortable but live out of state and are likely to need a lot of support in their golden years.

Finally, I worry intensely about one of my children and his ability to launch and become a good citizen.

MISCELLANEOUS

How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?

I’ve always been interested. My family has always talked openly about finances.

I have always been frugal.

Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?

I am inspired by my family and also my patients.

I meet people from all walks of life, and learning about the different ways that people excel and practice gratitude.

Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?

For physicians or healthcare professionals, I was very inspired by White Coat Investor as a medical student and resident.

I used to give them out to the residents when I was working in academics, and would teach a money course based on the principles.

Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?

We give more time than money, as I often offer free “scholarship” care to my patients. We do a lot of volunteering at a local food bank before every holiday and throughout much of the winter.

We do donate to charity, but it is currently only around 1% of our annual gross income, and I’d like to increase that to closer to 10%. This is part of my scarcity mindset that I am working to remedy.

Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?

I honestly haven’t thought much about this, though realistically, I suspect we will have a sizable net worth when we die. Currently, our money is in a trust that is to be divided amongst our children when we die, but given the challenges with one of my children, we likely need to revise this.

I would also like to leave significant amounts to charities or other organizations that support causes we care about.