Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
This interview took place in March.
My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I am 68 years old and my wife is 60.
We have been married for 35 years.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
We have one daughter (34 years old). She is independent and doing well in her career.
We were able to fully fund her education. That provided a strong foundation for her success and we are now happy to see her holding a strong professional position.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
We live in the northeastern U.S., roughly 35 minutes from a major metropolitan area.
While the cost of living is relatively high, the area provides numerous benefits such as a robust job market, proximity to major transportation hubs, and high-quality healthcare.
What is your current net worth?
At present, our net worth is about $6.2 million.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
- ~ $1.6 mil in cash assets (CDs, MM accounts, foreign bonds)
- ~ $750K in real estate syndication deals
- ~ $4 mil in stocks
54% of the assets are taxable, 43% are tax deferred and 3% are tax free accounts.
I prefer not to include the primary residence in the calculation, as I consider it a necessity. We have no debt, aside from the routine monthly credit card balances.
We pay off credit cards in full every cycle.
EARN
What is your job?
Currently, we are both retired, although my wife considers her time a sabbatical and hopes to explore part-time consulting work in the near future. Before retiring, I spent decades as an IT manager and consultant.
Closer to retirement, I opted for a part-time work. My wife held R&D director position at the several major pharmaceutical companies.
What is your annual income?
Since retiring (in 2024), we have not had any earned income. Our retirement is funded by investment income and my Social Security – the total is around $120K/yr.
Leading up to retirement, our combined income was in the $400K – $500K range.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
At this point, it’s worth mentioning that we are both immigrants. I left my home country shortly after college and arrived in the U.S. under challenging circumstances (6 months in a refugee camp).
I started my career in IT in the early 1980s with a modest salary ($17K/year) and gradually progressed through the ranks over the years, eventually making ~$180K. In hindsight, I probably should have sought new opportunities earlier, but staying at my first company allowed me to grow technically, even if it meant slower financial progress.
My wife joined me in the U.S. a decade later. She was a physician in her home country, but could not practice medicine here immediately.
With our child arriving soon after, and without family support, pursuing medical licensing was not feasible at the time. She initially worked in part-time healthcare roles with modest pay (around $12K/year).
As our child grew, she transitioned into the pharmaceutical industry, where she could fully apply her medical training. The process was extremely challenging, but she persevered and earned recognition and advancement for her talents.
Over time, her compensation grew significantly (400K+ range/year), reflecting her skills and leadership in the field.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
Anything is possible if there is a will to do it. I started with very little (a small suitcase and $40 in my pocket).
I learned early on the importance of choosing a career with strong growth potential (from a foreign economics graduate to an IT professional). My suggestion would be: find your niche, and strive to be better than the competition.
Soft skills often matter more than technical ones – people enjoy working with those who are pleasant, communicative, and reliable. Don’t be afraid to change jobs if it offers opportunities for meaningful advancement.
That said, I often wonder how this traditional advice will translate in the rapidly changing workplace shaped by AI. These are both exciting and challenging times, especially for the younger generation with many years ahead in their careers.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
Now we are both enjoying the freedom from the demands of corporate life. Our careers were challenging, as we simultaneously managed parenting responsibilities on our own.
In my role in IT I had many after work “on call” support hours. Towards the end of my career, I was fortunate to work fully remotely for several years.
While working from home can be isolating, commuting to the office made little sense, as my team was scattered across the US and overseas, so my work was conducted via MS Teams meetings.
For my wife, the last decade of her career was particularly demanding. In her global leadership role, she often worked 13-14 hour days under pressure.
Even when working from home during the pandemic, she spent most days in her home office from early morning until late at night. Concerned about her health and well-being, I encouraged her to step away from her role so we could fully enjoy life together while we have the opportunity.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
As noted above, our current income comes entirely from passive sources. In addition, we both have small pensions from our previous employers.
As we have sufficient income now, we did not start collecting these. We need to decide if to take them as annuities or the lump sump and convert to IRA.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
It typically falls within the $120K/year range, depending on the travel. In addition, I perform annual IRA→ Roth IRA conversions to avoid a large income spike at the time of RMDs.
At the same time I’m trying to be mindful of not to move into a higher IRMAA bracket.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
- Food: $600/mo
- Home maintenance: $700/mo
- Health insurance: $1600/mo
- Insurance (car/house): $3K/yr
- RE taxes: $10K/yr
- Fed & State taxes: $40K/yr
- Travel: $20K/yr
- Utilities: $500/mo
- Charity: $100/mo
- Misc. spend: $600/mo
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
No, we don’t have a budget. As both of us are very conservative spenders, we feel it is not necessary (at least not at this time).
However, I do monitor our spending regularly, just to stay aware of where our money goes.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
While I’m unsure of the precise number, my best estimate is approximately 40-45%.
At the beginning it might be lower due to the lower wages (~20%), but as we grew our income, the percentage moved higher.
What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?
Live below your means (control expenses, stay disciplined) and consistently invest; start contributing to your 401K early, and invest any additional income in the stock market as soon as possible (let compounding do the work).
What’s your best tip for spending less money?
The good old principle “Spend less than you make”, and don’t try to keep up with others, still holds. Identify what is important to you; are you focused on instant gratification, or on long-term financial independence?
Small, consistent choices can make a big difference. For example, I routinely brought my own lunch to the office, which both saved money and allowed me to control my diet.
I noticed that colleagues who purchased breakfast and lunch daily often seemed to struggle financially – a reminder that even small habits can have a meaningful impact over time.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
Travel is a major part of our retirement lifestyle. We’ve visited many National parks and interesting/attractive places both in US and abroad, and since retiring, have pursued ‘slow travel’, spending approximately two months each in different countries.
This extended stay offered us a deeper perspective than a typical short visit: it allows us to understand local customs, traditions, and daily life beyond the typical tourist experience. We truly enjoy it.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
I manage all our investments myself, but I always consult my wife on major purchases. I don’t trade very actively – our investments mostly sit and grow.
Along with low cost S&P 500 and some sector ETFs, we hold a portfolio of well performing individual stocks. They have grown nicely in recent years and provided good dividends, which we reinvest.
What has been your best investment?
I have to quote the Classic: My wife☺. Aside from that, my best investment has been disciplined, long-term investing coupled with continual learning.
I’m very happy with our overall portfolio. If I’d have to be more specific, it would be few major pharmaceutical stocks.
What has been your worst investment?
Like other investors on this site, it is the real estate syndication deals. I am invested in a few multi-apartment deals.
Initially, they paid consistently monthly dividends, but those payments eventually stopped. Several years later, I am just hoping to recover my original investment.
I was always suspicious about the low-interest mortgages; they seemed not to last. It’s unclear to me why adjustable-rate mortgages weren’t used, as additional capital is now needed just to keep the projects afloat.
Another concern is the current overbuilding in the multi-family sector/area. I see the signs on many new rental buildings offering extended incentives, such as several months of free rent, which suggests a high level of vacancies and a challenging market for these properties.
What’s been your overall return?
Again, this is just an estimate – around 12%.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
I keep an eye on the market every day, and perform the portfolio reconciliation on a monthly basis.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
As mentioned above, we had a slow start when we first arrived in the US. I initially had no knowledge about investing.
My introduction came through a workplace 401K , which I began contributing to. Over time, I discovered a financial community online that sparked my interest.
Here I have to give all my thanks and respect to John from ESI, who along with the ESI community taught me a great deal. I credit much of my financial success to all of you.
Once I understood the basics, I started reading extensively about personal finance and investing (all the financial books I could get from the library). From there, success came down to discipline (we always lived below our means and avoided lifestyle inflation even as income grew – we live in the same house for over 25 years, drive reliable, economical cars, we cook at home, engage in sports that do not require major investments, such as hiking, bicycling, and we regularly save and invest money).
Patience/time (investments grow exponentially when given time) and bit of luck.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
I would say all three are equally important, but there is an obvious sequence to it. We had to earn good income first, which took time while settling our family in the new environment.
Saving came naturally since we’ve never been big spenders. The investment part of it was is our case delayed due to my late introduction to the world of investing.
But I have no regrets.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
The biggest challenge was the 2008–2009 crisis. Back then, I lacked financial knowledge and panicked, selling a large part of my 401K at the absolute worst time.
I guess I hadn’t discovered Warren Buffett yet! It took years to get back on track.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
I mostly maintain the current investments, making only minor changes/adjustments occasionally.
To my surprise, transitioning from a saver to a spender after retiring hasn’t been difficult for me/us. I’ve read that this can be a challenge for many people who stop earning money. I must be a lucky/ fortunate one.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
Not really. We’ve already reached a place never imagined.
I’m a big fan of Morgan Housel and his perspective that money is just guarantee of freedom. Once you reach a comfortable level (“your target”), it is just watching the ‘numbers grow’ without any real (or little) impact on your life.
I am fortunate that my wife shares the same view.
I recognize though that markets will eventually correct, so I try to prepare mentally. ‘What goes up, must come down’, hopefully not all the way down ☺.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
I do not remember the exact age, but I think I was around 50.
Nothing significant changed in our lives.
What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?
We’ve always been naturally frugal, which has helped. At the same time, gathering as much information as possible about personal finance and investing was and still is important- knowledge is power.
Also, having a mentor who can guide you and point you in the right direction is priceless. I have mine in an online financial community and books.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
As I mentioned earlier, I made some ‘missteps’ during the 2008-2009 financial crisis, but I don’t lose sleep over it.
I didn’t know better at that time, but I was fortunate to learn from the experience – to avoid short-term reactions to market volatility.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
Educate yourself, and be disciplined in investing in your future and in ways you live.
Earn good income. Save a portion regularly. Avoid unnecessary debt.
Invest and let the investments grow over time. Overall, building financial security is both, simple and challenging: simple because it doesn’t require advanced degrees to understand the principles, and challenging because it requires focus, discipline, consistency, and patience over the long period of time.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
Our focus for the future is to enjoy the freedom and flexibility that our financial status allows. We plan to maintain a healthy, active lifestyle.
While our net worth provides the security to retire fully, we may also explore opportunities that keep us engaged and intellectually stimulated. Additionally, we are considering a future home that better suits our retirement needs, balancing comfort, accessibility, and proximity to essential services.
What are your retirement plans?
Keep traveling while staying healthy. We have a Bucket list of places we hope to visit and explore.
To accomplish that – we focus on regular exercise and a healthy diet (though not always perfectly☺). At the same time, we plan to dedicate more time to some other hobbies of ours, such as reading, attending various cultural events and cooking, as well as expanding our social circle (something that our hectic corporate lives have not allowed us to do fully).
As noted above, our plan also includes a move to a smaller house (ideally single-level) in a more retirement- friendly area. We plan to remain active as much as possible and as long as possible, and later (after our ‘travel phase’) explore also some volunteering or consulting (in my wife’s case) opportunities.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
Health remains a top priority; meaning not only maintaining it, but also managing the cost and accessibility of the care. My wife still has few years before qualifying for Medicare, so we currently obtain coverage for her through the Marketplace.
In addition to rising costs, we’ve faced reduced options, requiring us to reassess and select new coverage. Choices have become increasingly limited.
On my side, IRMAA is another challenging factor to manage.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?
As I mentioned, I came to investing at the later stage of my life. Growing up in a very different system, traditional investing wasn’t really part of the landscape.
I think I fully engaged with it in my late forties. That said, having studied economics, the world of finance felt natural to me.
Online resources opened up tremendous learning opportunities and provided endless opportunities. ESI being one of the most important resource of all that I’ve benefited greatly from.
I am sure many others would agree with me; so once again – a big Thank you!!
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
My parents were the ones who naturally had the greatest influence on my early life, shaping my values and work ethic. After arriving in the US, adjusting was challenging.
Fortunately, one of my co-workers at my first job took me “under his wings”, offering both professional guidance and personal support. I really appreciated his mentorhip and kindness.
So as I navigated life on my own, I drew inspiration from mentors, colleagues and my wife who supported and guided me along the way.
Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?
- Psychology of Money
- Art of Spending Money
- Rich Dad Poor Dad
The First two titles are by Morgan Housel. I really like his perspective on earning and spending money.
While These books are not traditional ”how-to” finance books, they offer valuable insight into the concept of “having enough” (perfectly describe the meaning of having a comfortable amount), that philosophy has always resonated with me and with my own view on finances – money provides the freedom and peace of mind, not just something to be spend.
The ability to what you want, when you want, with who you want is the highest dividend money pays.
The third book, by R. Kiyosaki, was just an eye opener for me presenting unconventional way(s)/approach(es) to borrowing and earning money. While I don’t think I could/would personally do it this way, I found it really interesting.
I enjoy reading articles on investing and personal finance, as well as watching educational YouTube videos on this subject (there is certainly no shortage of opinions – often conflicting ones e.g. ‘do Roth conversions, don’t do any’). In many cases, the usual answer is – “it depends” ☺.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
We make regular charitable contributions to organizations supporting children’s healthcare (i.e. St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital), as well as local organization in our county that assist under-served individuals. Occasionally, I also volunteer in the kitchen to serve the meals for these folks.
It is always a humbling experience and also a reminder to be grateful for what we have. In addition, We support our local church both financially and engaging in the volunteering activities.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
We plan to leave an inheritance to our daughter, as we don’t have any other relatives in need of financial support. She is currently doing very well, but given the uncertainty surrounding the future, particularly with the evolving impact of implementation of AI into corporate functions, it is nice to to provide an additional layer of security (or so we hope).
However, at the same time, we are also considering how best to support other meaningful causes. In today’s challenging world, we certainly want to explore more opportunities how to be helpful to others less fortunate ones.
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