Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
This interview took place in May.
My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I’m 33 years old. I’m unmarried but in a serious relationship with someone who is on the same page about our earning, saving, and spending lifestyle. We’re dating for marriage, so we had those serious financial conversations fairly early in our relationship.
Neither one of us have any credit card debt or any expensive vices…except for one car each. I’ll go over that later. Haha.
I blog about personal finance and business at my personal blog.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
I live in a small town within the general metroplex of Dallas-Fort Worth.
I originally was from rural Arkansas, so moving to the “big city” was quite an adjustment for me. I went from driving 20 minutes to go to Wal Mart for basic necessities to having essentially every known human product and service right down the street. I can still barely comprehend it.
My biggest reason for relocating to this area was to be close to a “hub” airport so that I was just one direct (and cheaper) flight to other areas of the country and world.
Living in rural Arkansas made basic travel pretty expensive and time consuming. I had to drive to Little Rock, fly from Little Rock to a connecting hub (Dallas or Atlanta), then fly from the hub to the destination.
Living right next to the hub has made traveling much more affordable, which is important to me.
What is your current net worth?
$5 million+.
I’m very conservative when I value my assets, because I want to assume the worst case scenario. For example, my businesses I value purely as what they have in the bank rather than the market price of the business. I just don’t want to be taken by surprise by a bad market.
I’m extremely risk adverse for an entrepreneur. I don’t want to be greedy and put myself in unnecessary danger.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
I’ve been obsessed with personal finance and investing since I was in high school. In fact, I was still in high school – I believe – when I discovered ESI and his original blog. I liked the systematic approach to wealth building where it was more about following principles and precepts Biblically rather than trying to make a fortune to impress people.
My biggest fear is that I overstate my net worth in my head, make a bad decision, then make a bad decision. I’d rather have 10m that I’m treating like 5m than the other way around.
Because I’m a wealth builder as a hobby, I’m pretty diversified. Here’s a basic rundown (just counting equity after subtracting real estate debt):
- 2m+ Private businesses. I own several website businesses/blogs. I recently started a freelance writing job board that I’m pretty excited about (I used to be a freelance writer).
- 2.5m+ Private real estate. I own a small apartment complex, a duplex, 18 single family homes, and two gulf-front Airbnbs. The real estate alone is enough to retire off of with a mid six-figure cash flow, so I don’t worry about things too much anymore. The real estate value is about 7.5m and some change, and I have about 5m in debt.
- 200k+ Personal home. I bought a nice home because I work from here and honestly like to relax in the back yard and pool rather than go out a lot. It sounds silly, but I probably save money versus living somewhere that I’d want to leave all the time. The home is worth about 1m and I have 200k paid down and 200k in appreciation, but I’m trying to be conservative.
- 550k+ Retirement accounts. Very boring M1 Finance accounts in Vanguard funds. I only change my allocation when major economic events happen. For example, I went to Treasuries early in 2020 and am glad I did. Then went back to normal when things crashed a bit, so did ok. I don’t believe in individual stock picking, but macro-economic responding seems to make sense. I might just be lucky.
- 100k+ Publicly traded accounts. Similar to above, this is where I have money that is more than I can put into the retirement accounts.
- 22k+ Crypto accounts (ouch). This is purely for fun, but ended up being more than I was planning. I got lucky with Dogecoin and rolled it all over into coins like Polkadot that I was able to stake for a pretty steady 12%. Still staking, even during the crash.
- 300k+ Private equity funds. Not a crazy amount, but I’ve invested in some private investment funds, like Codie Sanchez’s new private equity fund. She’s pretty brilliant. Fun to watch her brand explode.
- 350k+ Oil and gas royalties. I pooled with some other investors and we bought a nice hunk of oil and gas royalties. It did poorly during 2020 but is doing great now.
- 50k+ Physical gold and silver. I’ve been buying a few coins per month of gold and silver for the last decade. I just store it somewhere safe and don’t worry about its price.
EARN
What is your job?
I’m an internet marketer.
I’ve built and sold websites since I was in high school.
I originally built a personal finance website and sold it, then moved into political news, and now am pretty diversified between news and finance.
I also have a Stoic philosophy website that is a lot of fun to run.
What is your annual income?
Last year, my taxable income was right at about $1 million, which obviously doesn’t account for investments appreciating or anything along those lines.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
I’ve only had one job, working in my dad’s business, for a few months. Aside from that, I’ve been a freelancer or entrepreneur my entire life.
It’s been a crazy ride because I’ve lost everything before, and also had a website go viral and make (literally) millions within six months. I’ve seen it all in the last 15 years, which is why I’m so cash-flow oriented and conservative.
It’s harder to make a dollar than it is to lose a dollar.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
Learn risk management and look for opportunities that other people are missing. There’s a reason most of the FIRE community has a side hustle, even in retirement.
The best income is one you would keep even in retirement. That’s when you know your passion and your bank account are lining up, and good things usually happen when that occurs.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
My work is also my biggest hobby, so I do work a lot, but only on the parts of the businesses that I enjoy. That generally means the marketing side.
I really enjoy my life. I don’t plan on ever “working” less because this is exactly what I would do if retired.
That said, I did experiment with trying to have a traditional retirement for a couple of years. I ended up spending more than I should have and honestly didn’t enjoy it how I’d imagined. A working-retirement makes a lot more sense for me and my personality.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
The biggest would definitely be real estate cash flow. I invested in Arkansas when prices were cheap and rental income was high.
I also have two Texas gulf-front Airbnbs that are extremely seasonal but do cash flow over the full year, but it’s more volatile.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
I actually spend quite a bit more than most people, but I’ve always had a high savings rate. For example, when I was earning 50k, I was still saving as much as humanly possible. I never bought a new car until I had my first 7-figure year, for example.
Now, I spend over 100k, including my personal mortgage, an assistant, a daily in-person trainer, a weekly MMA trainer in person, etc. I spend most of my money on personal services versus things that go away.
I like to focus on savings ratios versus compare myself to other people. I’m not trying to keep up with the Joneses when they’re overspending – so why would I compare my savings either?
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
Personal services and travel add up to about half.
The rest in the typical things like mortgage, food, utilities, etc.
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
About once per quarter I just look at everything I’ve spent the last few months and kill recurring expenses I don’t like and watch out for bad patterns.
For example, I realized I was eating out WAY too much, so I started doing meal prep. It ended up being healthier and drastically cheaper.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
My goal is to try to keep my spending as close to 10% of my taxable income as possible. Since my taxable income is, well, taxed, that’s not as high as it looks, but it’s still pretty high.
As my income increased, the ratios stayed the same but my lifestyle became better. That said, none of my neighbors have any idea (I don’t think), because we all live in the same neighborhood, obviously, and I just have one nice vehicle, and it’s not -too- crazy.
What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?
Automation is everything, as is putting your net worth into appreciating and not depreciating assets.
Also, be willing to look foolish. I bought a truck a while back that I regretted. It made no sense. I didn’t need it. I only have one body and can’t drive two vehicles at the same time. So I sold it. Some friends joked about it, but it’s fine – it’s never smart to double down on a bad decision just because it’s embarrassing to admit a mistake.
What’s your best tip for spending less money?
Create an environment where it’s not easy to spend the money. If you have a friend who is constantly pressuring you to spend money, you might need to change how often and where you see them, for example.
Setting boundaries is critical to getting to be the person you want to be, whether in finance or other areas of life.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
Definitely fitness and MMA.
I can’t describe how much it impacts my mood and my daily productivity to start the day off getting destroyed in the gym, haha.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
Cash flow first, appreciation second.
Cash is king, and cash flow is the king’s power. I try to focus everything I do on assets that literally send me money in some capacity.
Because I’m an income investor, it means that my market timing is a little weird because crashes just make income look cheaper to me.
What has been your best investment?
Two years ago, I bought a duplex and a single-family house as part of one deal from an investor at a weirdly cheap price. I ended up instantly flipping the house and doing a cash-out refinance of the duplex and ended up with, after taxes, effectively a free duplex.
My money was tied up for about 60 days during the two transactions, then I had it all back plus a duplex with equity. Hard to beat free money.
What has been your worst investment?
Before I read through the library of finance books that I’d eventually purchased, I’d invested in an extremely illiquid, “private debt” fund that was supposed to be “as safe as bonds” according to my “friend” who was a financial planner at the time.
He received something like a 10% up front brokerage commission getting me, someone he knew his entire life, to invest in the fund. To say that was disappointing and a life lesson is an understatement.
I’m still not completely out of the investment, I’ve barely broken even, and it’s been an utter waste of my time and money.
Just to make this sting a little: I tied up $200,000 this way. Definitely the worst financial decision of my life. Another reason for most people to realize that just because you make a bad decision doesn’t mean you can’t make other good decisions and still end up somewhere great.
What’s been your overall return?
This is tricky, because I reinvest so much into my businesses and my real estate portfolio did really well (in a way that I probably won’t be able to repeat in the future) because I was buying off market deals before the market really heated up.
With the real estate deals included, well over 30% IRR.
Just stocks and bonds, probably somewhere in the 15% range.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
I review my system wide profit and loss every month.
I only review my real estate actual rough estimate returns every year, and if I had more self control, I would do the same with my stocks and bonds. I tend to check every month.
I’m working on letting go. My portfolio is bland enough that I don’t need to change it except to account for age, so I should ignore it more.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
I’ve always had a high savings ratio, and put the vast majority of my income back into starting websites (generally blogs) or investing.
It’s really just a numbers thing. If you have an extremely high way to turn a dollar into ten more dollars, and you put as many as possible back into that method, you’re going to grow drastically faster than most realize is even possible.
Entrepreneurship mixed with a high savings rate is an incredibly powerful combination.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
Earn, for sure. I’m a pretty boring investor, and my savings could always be higher. My earnings are where I disproportionately focused on building my skills over time.
As long as you save and invest, I feel like increasing your extra earnings is the most powerful way to get closer to an early retirement. Most people who retire early had some sort of extra earnings angle that they mixed with fairly high savings and investing rates.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
Several years before I had a project do very well, I actually lost everything. I was pretty young and built a network of fairly small Google-traffic based websites. Google changed their algorithm, and I lost just about everything. That was a scary time.
Still, I continued to work and learned from the experience. It’s part of why I’m so conservative now. I don’t want to go through that again.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
I’m still building new projects, like a job board for writers.
I’m also investing in more and more types of real estate. I purchased my first two Airbnbs in the last year and those seem to be going really well!
I love finding new ways to invest money.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
Not really.
I just want to have enough money so that when my wife and I pass, the non-profits that get most of the money will see it as a major event to help impact a lot of people.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
I was 25 when I had my first liquid million. I bought a new car, and that was it. I didn’t travel for years…I stayed in my tiny apartment. I was terrified of losing it all.
I bought literally hundreds of books on finance and investing and obsessed with those books for a couple of years.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
The biggest mistake I made was buying a brand new truck a while back. That was embarrassingly expensive for no reason. It was so big I couldn’t even park it in most parking garages. I knew better…everyone who knows me knows my first tips about personal finance are about not wasting money on cars.
The money lost buying and then selling that truck was…crazy. Oh well. Everyone has some losses, haha.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
Find an extra way to earn money, and save and invest 100% of it.
That could be a recipe blog, or freelance writing, or photography. It can be anything. Just save and invest it.
That one shift is enough to save literally a decade of your life in terms of an early retirement.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
I’m looking to work part time when I have kids so I can help homeschool them or have them go to a homeschool/private school hybrid system. I’d love for my wife to stay at home as well.
I don’t want the money to distract me from things like family and focus on physical items that I won’t even remember in 30 years. I want to focus on what matters.
What are your retirement plans?
I’m not sure, but I suppose I’m kind of retired now. I only work on passion projects for fun and struggle to see the line between work and hobby. I love what I do so much.
As I get older though, I definitely want to work even less and less as time goes on. In my head, I imagine a lot of cruises with my wife when the kids are grown.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
I worry about structural changes to the economy. I’m 33, so by 80, that will be 47 years of potentially great changes.
Rent control, AI, etc. – it’s hard to invest for the extreme long term. I suppose that’s why we have to take life year by year instead.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?
I read a book written for young adults called “Uncle Eric Talks About Personal, Career, and Financial Security” that my parents bought at a homeschool book fair when I was probably 12 or so years old. It was life changing!
By the time I discovered ESI’s old blog, I was hooked on thinking about personal finance.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
Oh this is a tough one. I’ve always struggled with questions like these for some reason.
I think my biggest inspiration when I was younger was my dad. He owned a business and I wanted to own one too. That’s what triggered me into thinking and focusing on the E part of ESI.
Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?
Yes, of course!
The first is the one mentioned earlier:
Uncle Eric Talks About Personal, Career, and Financial Security
The second is a follow up to the first, where he explains a major part of how money moves in macroeconomic systems. It sounds boring, but it’s life changing. It’s called:
The Clipper Ship Strategy: For Success in Your Career, Business, and Investments
He explains the economics behind a simple concept. You know who gets rich during a gold rush? The guy selling shovels.
My third favorite is one most people have heard about:
The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich
“Lifestyle design” is something I internalized at a very early age.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
I try to give about 10% of my taxable income to charity, though this is a very new thing. I’ve focused mostly in the past on direct charities, like anonymously paying for a full funeral of strangers, buying a car for a young lady who was adopting her niece and nephew, etc.
I’m also looking for a home church in this area. Hopefully, I’ll find one soon. That will help get to my target number while also still being able to do direct charity.
I really don’t worry about charity being “expensive.” I don’t see a money given as wealth lost. It is drastically better to give and take care of people on the eternal timeline than to hoard money here. haha.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
It depends on how old they are. I have no interest in creating children crippled by a huge trust fund. I want them to struggle and learn what life is about.
If they are much older when I pass, then I’m fine giving them more because they will have earned it.
The most important inheritance you can give to kids is the work required to teach them character and training. Money is fleeting and creates new temptations. I don’t want to ruin them with an easy life.
As Seneca said, “I judge you unfortunate because you have never lived through misfortune. You have passed through life without an opponent—no one can ever know what you are capable of, not even you.”
expatAshley says
SUPER IMPRESSIVE! So young & accomplished. Can I ask: about how many hours a week do you “work”?
Shaun Connell says
This is a great question! Since I wrote this article, I actually started working more as the COO of a company I owned moved on, but it’s not real work because it’s extremely fun for me.
Today I’ll probably have about 3 or so work ours that are actually me doing something I’m supposed to do, but it’s completely optional.
Blogging is both a business and a hobby for me at this point which is a huge blessing. 🙂
David @iretiredyoung says
I want to be you!🤣🤣 Well, actually, I’m quite happy to be me, but this interview was a very interesting read. I liked your comment about charity not being “wealth lost”, it’s a good way to contextualise charitable giving. I also agree with your thoughts on inheritance – my kids are 26 and 23 and I think there is huge value for them in letting them find their own way in life, including making mistakes. We’d be a safety net if it were ever needed, but that is more of a last rather than a first resort.
Shaun Connell says
I couldn’t agree more! Since writing the article, I’m about 99% sure I’ve found a church that I’m going to join, so that will simplify giving quite a bit.
It’s great finding a church where you know they take the finances seriously and are good stewards. I’ve been in a small church before that treated tithes as almost a slush fund for the elders… pretty rough stuff.
MrFireby2023 says
This is amusing. I did the opposite as you. I relocated from DFW to rural Arkansas and I wish I had done it sooner. I’ll never return to city or suburban living. I’m on 15 acres and “living the dream.”
Shaun Connell says
I totally get it! I miss it sometimes too. I think I’ll get a ranch or something at some point. I’m in Roanoke right now, so it’s still a little town vs the big city.
Mary says
As a freelancer myself, I am curious how you made your first million at age 25. Was it through a website you created or did you have seed money for an investment?
Shaun Connell says
I built and sold websites and took my sale money and rolled it into a new website over and over.
I still have a ton of almost random website projects. I’m working on a writing-tips blog right now that is a BLAST because I’m a nerd, hahahah.
charlie @ doginvestor.com says
Very interesting and a different journey to others on here.
What were some of the sites you sold and what made you exit them?
Do you still hold any high traffic sites or are you running a few more early stage sites at present?
Shaun Connell says
One of the websites was a very popular conservative news website. I sold it before censorship really hit that industry.
I’m currently planning a website that just focuses on Bible verses. Like, “73 Bible Verses About Overcoming Anxiety” and topics like that. I think that would be so healthy to build and run on a personal level.
Shaun Connell says
Thanks so much for posting the interview!! What a life achievement unlocked, hahahaha. I’ve been reading this and the first blog since I was literally in high school.
Funnily enough, I didn’t actually realize this and the other site where run by the same person for a couple of years. I thought the writing style was similar and then… uh… it hit me. Hahahaha.
M-124 says
I enjoy reading about millionaires but when the millions are gathered through entrepreneurship, we’ll it’s a real bonus for me. This is such a great share.
When I look at how youve arrived and that your wealth is spread across TRUE asset classes – equity in various businesses, real estate, hard assets and even some exposure to the stock market. Never mind that you were able to accomplish this at a young age.
As someone who opened my first business at 30, ( and 2 since) I applaud you. Lots of questions but you mention that perhaps your family gave you some business acumen, but you took a great deal of initiative to develop that. Yes ?
Also – any mastermind groups , you mention FIRE (which is fantastic).
I have such a group that meets quarterly and it’s made a huge difference. I’m 56 now and have always spent a great deal of money on self development. Like you , I can’t wait to work (well when I choose to).
This was just what I needed.
All the best in your continued success. BTW -I spend about half my time in The. Blue Ridge as well (Asheville). Roanoke is a great place.
Be well , and again, thanks !
Cody says
Totally agree on the entrepreneurship and “true” asset class diversification. Wife and I are “W-2 millionaires” (age 39, NW ~ $2.1 million). NW pretty much all financial assets. Even stuff we have in Fundrise and AcreTrader is, to me, basically a financial asset. Yes, M-327 is a fantastic interview. I’ve been thinking very much here lately how to get our 8 year old daughter off the get-a-job, save 20-35% for 25 years, raise kids, repeat cycle. The job market is increasingly hostile to employees. I love America, but it has always had a healthy (sometimes unhealthy) dislike of labor. Again, great interview here.
m-121 says
guys like this are the kind of people today’s youth need more of–what a fantastic interview and what an incredible story of hard work, entrepreneurship, and a wholesale subscription to the potential of the American Dream. guy has a plan and executes and doesn’t let the bumps get in the way–he is an inspiration in every sense of the word. if today’s miserable lot of millennials had more of him and fewer virtue-signaling, victim mentality whiners amongst their numbers, we as a nation would be in far better shape. i’ve made his interview mandatory reading for my daughter, as well as the essays on his blog.
fantastic stuff amigo. very, very impressive. thank you for sharing.
Alex says
Hi Shaun,
Congrats. Very impressive. Being a very conservative person myself, I understand desire to value everything conservatively – I do the same with our RE portfolio. It is almost like deciding not to be late by setting a clock a few minutes ahead. Was wondering if you are open to connecting via phone/zoom/metaverse:)? I just started a blog and have zero clue how to gain traction or what’s needed from marketing standpoint. Would love to here about your experience in internet marketing.
If interested, we can ask ESI to connect us without putting email on public display.
Thanks in advance