Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
My questions are in bold italics and his responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I am 53 and the wife is 58.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
We have two amazing daughters aged 24 and 22.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
We live in a highly taxed Mid-Western state.
What is your current net worth?
$1.987M
I keep track of things in Quicken so I’ll use three significant digits here. 🙂
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
- Primary home: $425k
- Log Cabin: $300k
- Retirement Accounts, IRA and 401k’s: $1.138M
- Personal stocks, cash, and mutual funds: $156k
- Toys like boat, atv, snowmobile: $20k
- Debt: ($52k)
What is your job (type of work and level)?
I am a senior level Systems Analyst and my wife is a Scientist. She has a PhD in Bio-Chem.
What is your annual income?
Mine: ~90k
Wife: ~105k
Bonus: ~ 15k
How did you grow your income so high?
Well here’s where things get interesting. Neither of my parents finished high school and I have 3 siblings so we were quite poor. I have a very vivid memory of sitting at the kitchen table one night and my Dad asked my Mom if she deposited his check. Her reply, “yes”. Next he said well how much do we have left. Her reply, “$1.74”. Dad started to show, shall we say, consternation. It hit me very hard and I remember going to school the next day and telling my friends they probably won’t see me any more since I’ll be quitting school and going to work to help the family.
I’ve had a lifelong battle with OCD and I’ve always worried about money, among other things. I told myself I would never be in the situation my parents got into so I always worked and saved. The day I turned 15 ½ I started my after-school job and I’ve never not worked since that day. The problem with that was instead of focusing on my education when I was young I just worked.
Fast forward a bit: once all my friends started graduating college I saw them starting to buy new cars, CD’s of the latest band…etc. I thought to myself wait a minute here I’m starting to look like a slacker. I decided if they could do it so could I so I decided to go back to school, in this case a great tech school in the area.
Having graduated high school with a 1.83 GPA out of a 4.0 didn’t really give me much of a head start. Here the OCD kicked in again and once I decided I was going to get an education too that was it, and I started to take summer classes to get caught up. I continued to work full time at night and went to school full time in the day. Once I realized I could actually learn something I kept it up all my life. I have a degree in Micro-Electronics, another one in Accounting and yet another one in Computer Science.
As an aside, when the wife and I built a home for our growing family I stayed involved as much as possible. For some crazy reason I was offended that someone else had to build my home so I learned what I needed to and started a company doing re-models and new construction myself. I’ve been a lifelong woodworker and a do it yourself kind of guy so it wasn’t much of a stretch just a ton of work. I didn’t build many homes but enough to say I made some money doing it.
Regarding my wife: it’s easy to explain. She comes from an upper class educated family in South America. She didn’t get money but she got an education.
What is your main source of income?
Income from our jobs is virtually everything. We’re getting around $3k annually from a REIT’s we’ve owned for years.
What is your annual spending and what are the main expenses you have?
Well we spend freely that’s for sure!
For some strange reason we are very cheap when it comes to things like cars and houses. I still drive the Kia I bought for my girls to use when they started to drive. It was totaled out in a hail storm many years ago. Every quarter panel shows the telltale signs of teen drivers yet I still use it as my daily driver. Cars are a HUGE WASTE of money. We’ll save like crazy then blow $15k on a boat or vacation…etc.
We don’t actually budget anything; I simply keep track of it all. We spend around $8K a month on the same things as everyone else, Mortgage, taxes, utilities, dinner out, daughters college expenses…etc. Our planned retirement income is $5750 a month which if we try we can hit that number today.
How did you accumulate your net worth?
Well as I stated above, I decided I was not going to be in a situation where I was broke like my parents were/are. I’ve always worked and when I would get paid I’d save a significant portion. I can’t say I did this every time but I saved early enough that for some crazy reason it really made a difference. Must have had something to do with that whole compound growth rate thing I hear people talk about. 🙂
I started to read everything I could about finance. I’ve read so much about finance I couldn’t stack all the books in my house, but without question the best thing I came across early was from the guys at “The Motley Fool”. Essentially what I figured out was virtually no one out performs the S&P 500 index over the long time so don’t waste money on fees paying for under-performance via a managed mutual fund or full service brokerage house.
The majority of our net worth was gained on Wall Street. I did, and still do, a lot of home remolding and building so we’ve saved A LOT of money by me doing the work rather than having to hire it out. I can’t explain why but I virtually never hire someone to do work for me that I can do myself. I had a neighbor once tell me that “I was quite a Renaissance Man”. I don’t know what that means but I think it’s a compliment.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from (or something you’d do differently)?
Mistakes….there’s a lot of those.
After I graduated from Tech school I started to buy individual stocks in technology since that was my field anyway. Problem was I’d buy something, watch it go up $300-$400 bucks and sell it right away and convince myself I was a stock picking genius. I never bought and held anything, well other than the losers, I’d hold them forever.
I was in on the ground floor of a technology revolution and had firsthand exposure to the hottest companies out there yet I never held anything for fear of a loss. I couldn’t comprehend a capital loss so I missed out on pretty much the whole dot com thing since I’d sell right away. For example: I took everything I had and bought 2000 shares of Apple Computer in 1986. I was the Apple Tech at the company I worked for. I sold it when I made around $500 bucks. Had I kept it…..I’ll let you do the math. The list goes on and on.
Another mistake, I never made the slightest attempt in high school. Having parents who never graduated told me it was just fine to put in my time and get out since my main focus was making money and moving out. As a result I never made a decent salary until I was in my 30’s and had some level of education. I’ve been playing catch up ever since.
What have you learned in the process of becoming wealthy that others can learn from (what can others apply to become wealthy themselves)?
This is a tough one for me because accumulating some comfortable level of wealth is so easy and pretty much everybody knows what is involved. Lots of things in life are difficult, trying to read and understand Steven Hawking’s PhD thesis, difficult, String theory, difficult, seeing your wife in the ER having a heart attack, difficult, watching a loved getting radiation treatment, difficult, obtaining a net worth of around $1M in a lifetime well that one’s a piece of cake!
I get very frustrated when I see the savings rates in this nation. It doesn’t matter what income level you’re at if you decide you want to be worry free then make it happen.
I try to teach my girls, and anyone else who will listen, this simple concept: get some level of education if possible and find employment that will allow you to live a simple lifestyle. Save anything beyond that and invest in index funds. That’s it, there’s nothing to it. Time takes care of the rest. The only hard part is establishing a living wage which requires education. I’m convinced virtually everyone can learn at any age if you put in the effort. I’m proof of that. I’m enrolling in a couple more night classes to keep up as we speak and I’m 53.
Don’t waste your money on news cars or big houses. No reason to give away your funds to the city for taxes. We have the smallest house in our development. If you save in one area long enough you’ll have resources to spend in others.
Lastly: if you make 1 dollar you spend .75c not the other way around. Again, this is so not complicated it just takes a little motivation. People tell me “well I don’t even have enough to live on I can’t save”. My response is always “how much homework do you do on your lunch hour at work?”
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
This is another easy one! I love these softball questions. What are we doing, we go to work every day, we utilize our employers 401k plan and spend less than we make.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
Nope.
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle (for instance, will your net worth allow you to retire early, downsize jobs, etc.)?
Both my wife and I have existing health problems. We simply weren’t blessed with good genes I guess. Nobody in their right mind would insure us so we have to keep working. The best we can hope for is to cut back to part-time so we can keep our employers’ health coverage.
Next year my youngest heads off to dental school so we hope one or both of us can go part-time after that but that’s it. We would be very happy if that’s how things turn out.
Myself, if I have too much time on my hands I start to go off the deep end worrying about stuff. The OCD helps to keep driving me forward. I finally just had to accept it and figure I’ll be working for a long time yet.
Is there any advice you have for ESI Money readers regarding wealth accumulation?
Everyone needs to stop this crazy fixation on consumption. As a nation we seem to feel we are entitled to live beyond our means with no consequences. If you are always in debt you will always have to answer to someone rather than call your own shots. If you’re OK with that then fine just don’t come to me and ask for part of my Social Security because you’re broke and I’m not.
It’s all about choices. Every night after work I climb into that beat up old Kia and smile knowing it costs me almost nothing to drive to the place I don’t want to go anyway, work. The guy parked next to me, making payments on his Lexus, is a fool as far as I can tell.
Razorback 14 says
Thanks 33 —-
Another great and interesting interview.
My take away is this :
1. Spend .75 cents and save .25 cents from every dollar earned.
2. Learning how to understand OCD at a deep level —-
3. Learning from your parents and being an example for your daughters.
4. driving your KIA with pride.
5. Not having a set budget each month, but knowing your set monthly spending amount and staying under that number.
6. Not having a net-worth number to hit in the end. I like it.
Again, thank you for sharing your time, your knowledge and pieces of your plan with us.
Mike at Balanced Dividends says
Agreed Razorback – not only an interesting interview, but also a nice list of takeaways (thanks for capturing).
This also stuck out for me from the interview response: “What are we doing, we go to work every day, we utilize our employers 401k plan and spend less than we make.”
It might be simple and slow, but it works. Thanks again both.
Darren says
Thanks Mike I appreciate that 🙂
D
Millionaires Unveiled says
Great interview; thanks for sharing! I thought you gave some great advice! It would be interesting to drill down into the retirement and investment accounts.
Will says
Great interview. My takeaway is the nature vs. nurture aspect and how this gentleman did not let his upbringing predict his outcome.
As someone that has struggled with ADHD for many years I can sympathize with the challenges.
Live below your means. I would add with his technology background and unique story he could have a really interesting blog that would likely help a lot of people.
Darren says
Thanks Will, yes I’ve always wanted to write a financial blog. After discovering ESI I realize he’s pretty much got things covered.
D
Mrs Adventure Rich says
Awesome, 33! It is inspiring to see a couple who grew their wealth almost solely through their primary income. My primary income has been my focus (I’m a young business professional) and I think it can be a huge leg up in wealth creation if you work to grow your income and invest in your career (while curbing lifestyle inflation!).
Laurie@ThreeYear says
I loved your story 33! Thanks so much for sharing. This: “If you save in one area long enough you’ll have resources to spend in others.” I so agree with you, there. We, like you, tend to save in cars and houses and then spend on travel. But that’s important to us. And we make sure we save a lot of our overall incomes.
Darren says
Thanks Laurie. That makes me feel better about blowing 4k on another snowmobile! Good thing my old Kia got me to work today.
D
Jason@WinningPersonalFinance says
Love the quote about how things in life are hard but saving $1M is not. The classic formula of getting an education and a good job plus living below your means with a small house and old car works. Bravo MI33. Well done.
Darren says
Thanks Jason. You’re next!
D
Ms99to1percent says
Wow, very impressive. From your parents having $1.74 to you guys having $1.9M! This is the type of rags to riches story I like to read. Thanks M33 and ESI for this inspiring story.
Dave says
Great interview M33. It does not matter where we start out in life. What matters is how we finish. Your interview was truly motivational. OCD is a serious issue to overcome. My mom has struggled with it her whole life. Great job and thanks for sharing.
Handy Millennial says
This is yet another great installment in this series. Thanks John! The networths are impressive but quite boring if you’ve trolled this community enough. What I always find impressive is the way that these people got there. Usually its just two people working jobs around 100k. Now I realize that 100k sounds like a lot to most people, but I challenge people to check out the inflation calculator and a cost of living comparison website. I think that people will find that due to salary compression and cost of life increases 100k is really the equivalent of what a middle class American working in a small town make a few decades ago.
Anyway, the point is, its achievable, and these case studies always act, for me, as the antidote to the “to get wealthy you need to own the Lamborghini factory” mentality in popular media.
Kevin says
This is one of the most impressive interviews for me to date. Simple common sense advice with an ethos of hard work added to it. Well done Sir.
One thing I would add which I think is maybe a fault in those of us who do spend less than we make is that we under estimate how difficult following this advice actually is in a world which operates on the basis of encouraging more consumption. Spending less than you make when credit is encouraged, when ATM cards are simple swipes is actually difficult for most people. There’s a huge difference between handing over 10 one hundred dollar bills for the latest gadget and entering either your debit card or credit card numbers in an online payment. For those of us old enough to have lived in a cash culture before debit/credit cards, we have the advantage of comparison.
Being rational is hard and requires effort. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect it from others but when I talk to people who don’t save or think they cannot, I have quite a bit of empathy for their position given the culture we live in.
Again, great interview 🙂
Darren says
Thanks Kevin. Very kind words and good thoughts. Venmo is going to bankrupt the next generation. It’s too easy to spend with a swipe.
D
Laurel says
Another inspiring interview. Can someone advise me? I’m 58 and my husband is 54. We have a net work of about 850k. We got a late start in saving/investing but have most of that in Vanguard funds. I’d like to quit work when I turn 60. If he works until he is 60 we can keep his govt health insurance. Our spending is about $2800 per month. Home is paid for and we live in a very low property tax area. We contribute to our 401ks and also save a little besides that. I make about 65k and he makes 40k. I plan on drawing SS when I turn 62. Do you think it is reasonable that I can quit my job in 2 years? Thanks
Erik @ The Mastermind Within says
Yes, I’d say you are in a great spot. $2800 * 12 is $33,600.
The famed 4% withdrawal rule says you need $33,600 * 25 = $840,000 in investments to retire and your money will last 33 years.
With you working 2 more years, and your husband working 6, I’d say you are in a great spot. With some adjustments on the asset side (possibly buying more income producing assets, etc.), and 8 more working years combined between the 2 of you, there’s room to grow.
Laurel says
Thanks Erik! We do have a couple of side hustles, selling on ebay, and (soon) airbnb with a vintage airstream trailer. I agree with Darren below too, catastrophic medical problems can waylay our plans.
Darren says
It all comes down to heath and the insurance plan you will get. If you have a large MOP and something comes up where you’ll hit that every year, like follow up cancer screenings, that changes things. That’s the situation my wife and I are in.
D
Laurel says
Darren – thanks for the reminder. I’m sorry for your trouble!
Darren says
Hope I’m doing this right here so everyone can see it but I want to say thanks a lot for the feedback. We all need to figure out how to get independent asap. Things in life change in a hurry.
Darren
Amy @ Life Zemplified says
Thanks for sharing your story, Darren. I hope you and your wife can improve or at least manage your current health issues to enjoy many years to come.
Darren says
Very nice of you to say Amy, thanks 🙂
Darren
Carlos says
Congratulations M33! Very inspiring interview.
Shows that anyone can make it if you apply the common sense principles of earning, saving, and investing; Work hard, live under your means and time will do its thing.
JayCeezy says
M33, my OCD-dar started pinging at “$1.987M”. Then I noticed you use the word “crazy” four times. And some legendary historical figures, including (in order of importance) Bon Scott, Jesus of Nazareth, Chris Farley, Alexander the Great, John Belushi, and Bruce Lee all passed away at age 33. It went on, but I’ll spare you my process.:-) Anyway, I always love to see a fellow ODCer turn into the condition, and make it work for them.
Seriously loving your values, treasuring your wife and two amazing daughters while scorning empty status items. Also, love how you embraced the difficult task of ‘learning’ and did it through the brute force of hard work. Awesome!
Darren says
Thanks JayCeezy. OCD can be brutal at times and I feel for anyone who is stuck with it. After many years I’m finally in a good place. Good luck to you. Darren
Rick says
Have there ever been any follow up interviews with any of the past millionaire interviews to see what is currently going on with them?
ESI says
This is the only one:
https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-16/
The rest were done in the past year or so, so there’s not much of an update possible in that time.
Ask again in 3 to 5 years and we’ll see. 😉
Jason says
All I have to say is well-done. Keep up the great work and keep being an inspiration to others.
Razorback 14 says
Message to Laurel —-
My wife and I work hard to earn as much as we can , so we can save and invest properly—- and we have for over 35 years —-
We follow a general rule for how much we should save and how much it will allow us to draw out during retirement—- not sure how scientific this approach is, but it serves as a guide-post for us as we continue to prepare for retirement—-
“For every $1,000 we draw out, in retirement, we think we will need about $250,000 invested and part of our financial plan. Again, this is personal goal we’ve adopted and a process we feel will Work in the future — “
Good luck as you continue to build toward a long and happy/healthy retirement—-
Dan says
Wow!! That is an inspirational story and one of my favorites thus far. The takeaways have already been covered so I won’t comment on that, but I have to agree, saving $1M seems easy (after you explain how you did it) compared to the challenges you have faced. I wish you the best dealing with your health issues, and say well done by pushing through non-optimal circumstances in your early life! Through work and diligence you have effectively changed the trajectory of you and your families’ life!
Darren says
Thanks Dan. 🙂
Darren
Life’s a beach says
I love the mathematical precision! NW of $1.987M, not rounded to $2M. That’s probably why y’all are doing well, y being super realistic about how life & money work. Good on ya
Darren says
OCD at work here 😉
Thanks beach.
Darren
Anna K says
I really enjoyed this one as I also don’t do a monthly budget. I listen to Dave Ramsey and feel guilty for not budgeting yet we have a NW of $1.6M, so we’re doing something right. We spend less than we make, save monthly in a 529 for kid’s college, and put away 20% in our 401k’s. My big splurge is expensive vacations too…
Jeff B. says
We don’t budget either, but we make a ton of money, we won’t outspened our bills. Our basic utility bills are low enough and our biggest wildcard is entertainment and travel. I get mad when I can’t make my savings transfer. That tells me we overspent the month before, but we float money to friends for travel. ie. we will book a house that holds 10 eight months in advance and we get paid back. Last month was a big month since we are going to spain and portugal and have put up the money for a house and balcony in pamplona. But in general, we don’t budget and do 98% of Dave Ramsey as well. We have bought our last 3 cars with cash and did our home remodel with existing cash.
Physician on FIRE says
“We live in a highly taxed Mid-Western state.”
Sounds familiar. Golden Gophers fan, by any chance? They’re beating up on the Fighting Illini right now.
Excellent interview — I’m sorry to hear you dropped the Apple stock. Man… one can dream, right/
Cheers!
-PoF
Jeff B. says
I guess Illinois since it highly taxed.
Darren says
Next door my friend. 🙂
Go Bucky!!!
MI32 says
https://financialmentor.com/calculator/best-retirement-calculator
Check out this calculator
Josh says
Great story of strong work ethic and consistent investing. It’s amazing how healthcare has become such an X factor in many American’s plans for any kind of sabbatical or retirement. The discussion of life difficulties and seeing a loved one in the hospital surely puts things in perspective.
Darren says
Wow very nice group of followers here! Nice job ESI
Diane says
Really enjoyed reading this interview. The basic fundamentals of education, good job, and spending within your means. Not very complicated but so many people can’t seem to do this. It is a shame to see how low the savings rates are in this country.
I commend you for learning how to compensate for your medical condition. I don’t have OCD, but it sounds like the condition has shaped your life and you have found ways to use it towards improving your life.
Arrgo says
Great interview. I always enjoy seeing the different ways and mindsets people have in becoming successful. You can always pick up some new ideas or motivation. I agree that hitting 1 mil and beyond doesnt have to be all that complicated. Try to start investing young then max out when you are able to. Keep your spending in check. You dont really need as much as you think you do or are led to believe by all the marketing on TV etc. Get some self control and spread things out a little. There are plenty of ways to get all the things you want in life for less (or even a lot less) if you keep your eyes open and make the effort, negotiate etc. Another takeaway I liked is his do-it-yourself attitude which I do also. You can really save a lot of money in learning how to fix things yourself. Repair services like heating, plumbing, electrical, auto, etc many times will really charge you a premium for the labor and put a big mark-up on the part. The internet has become the great equalizer and if you are handy you can find answers on Youtube or other posts. Last year my heater stopped working. Im not very familiar with heaters, but I did some troubleshooting and took a guess it was the plastic ignition box. Ordered it from Amazon for $50 and it fixed it. When I had my heater cleaned I asked the guy how much replacing that would have cost me. He said over $300 so I felt good about that. I also got good at fixing my lawnmowers that wouldnt start. One was a swelled up o-ring in the carb on my old tractor mower ($2.49) and another was the carb which I bought off ebay for only $8. All fixed by videos on Youtube. How much would the shop have charged me? Sometimes it may not seem worth it for the hours you put in, but it feels good to fix something yourself and you always have that knowledge going forward. Many times a lot of this stuff isnt as complicated as it may seem once you get into it. I know its good to focus on the big wins, but over time my philosophy is to attack on all fronts and take all the wins I can get, even the small ones.
Darren says
Now you’re talking! I love to see “Do it yourself folks”!!
Darren
Jeff says
What stands out to me if is the comment he makes about investing when he says, “…no one outperforms the S&P index.” Solid advice because people can get very confused about what stocks to invest in, but if you buy into one that mimics the S&P 500, then you’re keeping your investing simple and doing your future self favors in terms of annual returns.
Sean @ FrugalMoneyMan says
I find that most people who become very interested in personal finance do so because of 1 specific event in their life. Your event being the moment with your mother and father, but it’s amazing the effect that 1 event can have on the rest of our entire lives!
I am also happy you mentioned that you came across one of the greatest investor principles that most people ignore. You may be able to beat the market in the short-term, but 99.9% of us will essentially never beat the S&P 500 Index over the long-term.
Thank you for sharing all of your knowledge!
Jeff Young says
I liked that detail about the S&P 500 too. I talk to some of my friends about investments, and they just don’t know where to start. I try not to give advice on the issue, but guide them to looking into index funds that mimic the S&P 500. With a tiny bit of research, you can find these index funds pretty easily.
Accidental FIRE says
Great job #33 – drive that Kia till she’s crippled and falling apart!
Lily | The Frugal Gene says
“Lots of things in life are difficult, trying to read and understand Steven Hawking’s PhD thesis, difficult, String theory, difficult, seeing your wife in the ER having a heart attack, difficult, watching a loved getting radiation treatment, difficult, obtaining a net worth of around $1M in a lifetime well that one’s a piece of cake!”
That’s a very spiritual perspective. Having read all of these interviews to date, this is certainly one of the most unique, thank you for sharing with us.
I have similar memories regarding my parents that I believe led me to deal with money concepts in similar ways.
Keep us updated on your health and future adventures 🙂
Richard says
Talk about an inspiring alternative view . . . love it. Based in reality, the only place to be. I (somewhat ashamedly) can admit that I bank off of bipolar energies. The darker side is well-treated, basically power yoga by day, then the bong and choice nip at night; this is WA state, and the casino doesn’t test. They’re infinitely more worried about what a modern physician might prescribe, and for good reason, considering those latter stages. I stay the hell away from both and control my own health, for the most part. The sunny plus side, though, I let rip–go go go, sometimes a million tasks done, like the original mother on crack. Bad joke; I wouldn’t know that particular sensation either, but I do not neglect the relative blessing of free body chemicals to gain some advantage. While the sun shines, baby, though admittedly a great portion of the good life passes through a more stable middle ground. Both ‘ends’ are a little too scary for sex, so it’s nice to play normal for the general best, and where the gf chooses to live sans such free blessings. Keepin’ it real since 1968 . . . but you go, brother man. Inspiring.
Richard says
I can see now how the darker side got in the way, historically and financially. Even well-treated, the moods can be a problem, or have been. Nevertheless, father played it straight without free blessings; those chemicals came from his questionable wife, with a silvery tongue, my poisonous mother. He also survived the Great Depression, volunteered for WWII, became an electrical engineer and slightly aloof family man, later a millionaire till the Great Recession contracted it. At the peak of his powers he famously quipped, IS THIS ALL THERE IS?! The divorce came later. This world is a blank slate; do as you will, with some degree of caution. My best advice.
Richard says
I also got wise on index investing . . . found an S&P 500 gem (.19 expense ratio) in the middle of our otherwise crap-laden 401(k) courtesy of Merrill Lynch. Thanks for that if not the rest, boys. Anyway, discarded the crap, boosted it to 100%, so no rebalancing required–or fees. Every two weeks, 16% from my check; casino matches dollar for dollar at 5, for a total of 21. Another 15% is pulled from net for cash protection, money market or high-yield accounts (10 in one, 5% int the latter). I sleep a lot better now, though the nest egg will most likely be modest at the peak. That’s okay too, though; anything more than about 100k, or less than three million, could leave you or your family member AND nest egg vulnerable to medical catastrophe, at least under our current system. Once I figured that out, no sweat baby. You can have your high net worth. I’ll have my own cake and damn well eat it, too.