Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
My questions are in bold italics and his responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I’m 50. My wife’s age fluctuates. Married for 16 years.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
2 boys – age 14 & 8
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
Recently moved to the Rockies after living overseas for most of the past 3 decades.
What is your current net worth?
$4.8MM
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
- $1.85MM in investment accounts
- $60K in Roth IRA
- $1.4MM in holiday rentals + commercial real estate
- $1.4MM home value
- $425K in cash/term deposits/foreign exchange
- -$290K home mortgage
EARN
What is your job?
Am about to launch a WeWork/community space type of business targeting specific industries with a partner that is being funded by private equity. It’s a decent gig in that it’s all sweat equity on our side, however we are locked in for several years to see any real outcome and ownership. There goes the plan to retire at 50. 55 anyone? Beuller?
What is your annual income?
Taking $120K in salary + $100K+ in income from dividends/rental income
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job and how did it grow from there?
My first job was in Japan where I made $35K/year + free housing.
Bounced around a bit and ended up in China where I worked to an exec level in the advertising industry.
Before moving to the US was earning around $300K. Have never worked in the US until now.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their income?
During the tech bubble of 2002 I quit my job because of a girlfriend. As soon as I quit, she dumped me – of course. I took my newfound freedom as a chance to start something on my own, but over the following 4 years things were tighter than Zsa Zsa Gabor’s face after plastic surgery (how about tighter than a mussel with lockjaw?).
My wife and I learned how to stretch a Yuan to the breaking point. It wasn’t terrible, we were just incredibly careful. Fortunately China in those days was incredibly easy on the wallet. Unlike today, we were able to take advantage of cheap rent, cheap food, cheap beer, and cheap travel.
Moving to a part of the world where your money goes a long way is a solid way to stay flush. But it was because of these four years that we learned how to truly be frugal without sacrificing living. Why waste $4 dollars at Starbucks x 365 days a year when you can enjoy a similar tasting coffee at home for $0.15 (I actually hate the taste of coffee so this was never a real sacrifice)? Why buy a $25 book at the bookstore when it is free at the library?
It is amazing how wasteful most people are. Don’t add to your clutter. Don’t buy unnecessary crap. Only splurge on occasion to make splurging seem like something special.
I watch friends/colleagues just pour money down ridiculous holes and can’t understand how people can be so wasteful. If I could earn $0.01 off every dollar I convinced someone I know not to waste on stupid s**t, I’d add 5-figures a year to my bottom line. There’s your side hustle.
To this day I will rarely order a drink at a restaurant – $5 for a juice or a Coke or whatever is just empty calories that gives me little added pleasure/value and over time all that savings adds up to thousands that I can go splurge on something I really will enjoy. I rarely cave to peer pressure to buy something I don’t want and couldn’t care less is my friends or colleagues think I’m too cheap to buy a coffee.
I won’t walk for 30 minutes to save $1 on bus fare, but I take great pleasure in knowing that I save $5000/year on not wasting money on low-value social spending.
[Editor’s note: This does not answer the question I asked (how to grow income) but since I like a good rant on how people spend too much I decided to leave it in.]
What’s your work-life balance look like?
My balance has always been pretty good.
My parents took me to Mexico when I was 9 and I really got into the idea of living overseas. I started doing exchange programs in school farther and farther away. And when I graduated college my first job was based in Japan.
For many years I didn’t care so much about salary, but more about where I was living and if my job took me on exotic adventures. I didn’t earn 6-figures until I was about 36. But losing a job and then getting married and having a kid brought some perspective and I turned my focus to a more serious job.
Fortunately I got into a career where I was able to continue the adventures and travel (while at the same time convincing myself that I hadn’t sold my soul in attempts to convince consumers that whiter teeth make you sexier and Nike shoes make you faster).
And now, living in the Rocky Mountains with amazing running and biking trails at my doorstep and a new career opportunity that lets me work in my underwear from home is continuing this tradition of life-work balance.
I do, however, think the romance of living an exotic lifestyle could have been enhanced had I been more focused on what it is I actually wanted to do while I was in college. I am trying not to be too much of a Tiger Parent, but do spend a lot of time discussing the future with my 14 year old. Had I grown up in international schools, able to speak multiple languages from birth, I would have put a lot more attention on my career path from an earlier age.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
I own three daily beach rentals that contribute $35-40K/year – of which I spend less than an hour/week managing.
I own some commercial real estate that adds about $15K/year that I also spend zero time on.
Dividends from my investment accounts bring in about $50-60K year.
I wanted a bit of diversity from the stock market and have sought out people I know who are earning passive income to understand how it works and what are the risks.
I have seen a few friends take huge risks with their entire savings and lose everything – just not worth it. I see how losing everything sets you so far back that you can never recover. Diversification is a good rule.
Partnerships are the best way to spread the risk as well as a way to augment the total power of the partnership. Good partners contribute skills to the value of the partnership. My strategy has been to identify successful friends/acquaintances in areas of shared interest.
For my holiday rentals, I had a friend who had successfully grown his number of owned rentals over many years, but stretched his borrowing to the limit. Through one of my stock portfolios, I had access to cheap short-term borrowing. I also worked in advertising/marketing. Through our partnership, we were able to leverage several additional rentals and then successfully market them to higher capacity rentals. This allowed us to quickly pay off the loans, let us earn higher incomes, and watch the values of our rentals continue to increase. My partner and I continue to search for additional rental unit and commercial real estate opportunities.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
Approximately $125K/year – half going to housing related.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
Having moved to the US, I am relishing the free public schools as very little expenditure there. We do, however, send our kids to an intense language school throughout the year – about $2,200/year.
My wife and I just bought our first real house – we are trying to pay off the mortgage in 5 years as we locked in a special low rate if we pay it off quickly so yearly spend $65K here (including insurance). We spent most of our lives living in rented apartments or condos and even with 2 kids we never had anything bigger than 2000 square feet (usually just 1200 square feet).
Coming to the US we bought what we feel is way too much house. Who needs this much space? We got it well under market and are happy with the investment, but have quickly become tired of all the maintenance and gardening and upkeep and cleaning required. We definitely do not mind moving back to the world of condos. Get the top floor of a low rise near the pool and you’re laughing!
We like to control our menu and eat in a lot. We lived a lot of years in countries where food scandals are rampant. Coming to the US we also find we have varying degrees of lack of trust with the food industry here as well – high fructose corn syrup, hormones, preservatives, and chemicals abound. My wife is an excellent cook and she wants us to eat healthier.
We have also found that tipping in America has somehow edged up to 22%. What a sham. Service hasn’t improved tremendously and even some fast food places try and guilt you into tipping. And when most of the world doesn’t have this tipping custom it is hard to get used to it.
Eat healthy, control your ingredients – save thousands of dollars. Estimated budget here is under $15K/year.
We love to travel, but don’t feel the need to stay at the Ritz. Estimate $10-15K/year.
Utilities – about $4K/year. Learn to live without constant need for data on your phone and save $1000/year.
Health insurance – $12K/year for crappy insurance. I will say that America is a joke in this area. It is shameful. Both my kids were born in different countries under national insurance. My wife’s had multiple surgeries in various countries under national policies. Cost was a negligible. It is sad. We will not spend our golden years here.
Property/auto taxes – $7K/year
Miscellaneous – $5K/year
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
We don’t have a set budget, but we both just watch our spending. It’s second nature.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
For years my company covered most of our needs – housing, school, health insurance, even travel. We probably averaged about 66% savings for more than a decade. Now it is a bit under 50%.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
Travel. Most expense is for getting overseas. US travel is very inexpensive – camping or visiting friends.
My second/third favorite things are biking and running, but not a lot of expense here. Just upfront costs of a good bike/pair of runners.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
I look for opportunities/projects that will (hopefully) bring in at least 10%.
I try to keep things diversified within my portfolio (bonds, funds, blue-chips) and into other areas (real estate, cash, forex).
I try to invest in areas I believe will have a future – energy, tech, staples.
I try (as much as I can) to be somewhat conscientious in what I buy – avoiding support of weapons/guns, supporting areas such as solar/wind. My whole family got behind a promising solar start-up that sadly went belly-up. This felt less terrible than other losers in my portfolio.
I remember reading one of your interviews where the interviewee responded, “Buy low, sell high.” That made me smile. If we could all do just that. Or maybe figure how to corner that Frozen Concentrated Orange Juice market (for all you Trading Places fans).
What has been your best investment?
Not exactly an investment, but perhaps getting really serious after the scare of several years without real work. It taught me to think about spending. It taught me to save religiously. It taught me to value things that I like (and to avoid things I don’t).
Among the best is Apple Computer – bought a couple hundred shares for about $30/share sometime in the 90s. That $6000 investment has grown to a quarter mil.
What has been your worst investment?
In my 30s, before I was married, I was duped by a friend (more of an acquaintance) with a “great idea.” Not a huge loss, but enough to hurt.
A short time later, an actual friend invited me to be a part of his start up. I knew he was smart and talented, but I declined – still smarting over my recent failure. When he sold a decade or so later for a few hundred million I mentally kicked myself.
What’s been your overall return?
Over the past 6 years it has averaged approx 11%. Prior to that I haven’t kept detailed enough info.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
I monitor holdings/dividends somewhat regularly, but in busy times probably only really do a more thorough tracking about every 2 or 3 months.
I am scared to death of online tools such as Mint or Personal Capital. I love the idea and ease of being able to have the computer power track my details, but just don’t trust these companies enough to feel 100% secure that my data won’t get hacked.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
My parents created a fund to cover all my higher education costs. They didn’t let me know about it until about 8 years or so after I graduated and was really working. By then it had grown to about $300K. Not being saddled with any student loans made life a lot easier. And then being given a starter nest egg to manage was a godsend.
I had probably saved another $200K by this time and suddenly became very responsible about growing what I had and what I had been given at a steady rate. I felt like I couldn’t disappoint my parents by not carefully managing and growing my funds.
I read a lot about investing. I communicated regularly with my portfolio managers. I worked hard, earned more and saved like crazy.
Never once, to this day, have I touched the base. I’ve reinvested dividends or have used the cash plus low-interest loans against my portfolio to fund other investments like my rentals, but have paid those off as fast as possible.
I plan to do the same for my kids, just need to figure out a good plan.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
It’s been a slow, but stable climb. I worked straight through the 2008 recession without even really feeling it – I was living in China which probably helped.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
Not putting it all on red.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
It’s whatever we’ll need to get to the $200K-$300K/year net return scenario.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
I think around 40. It passed like a quiet sailboat in the night.
I hit $2MM at about 44. I remember thinking, Whoa! That seemed more momentous. If I hit $10MM – drinks on me.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
I got an MBA, but didn’t exploit it as much as I should have. One of my classmates was Mr. Intern. He interned constantly with a bunch of firms throughout his 2 years to figure out what industry floated his boat. That was smart.
If you had to give advice to ESI Money readers about how to become wealthy, what would it be?
Make saving easier by giving up nonsense spending. Realize early on that a cluttered life only holds you down. Experience is so much more valuable than some nonsense trinket. Do you need 11 bicycles? I have a friend who has literally given up everything he owns. He as some clothes and a toothbrush. He is completely unshackled and free to do everything he wants to. He works a high powered job at a Fortune 50 company and is one of the happiest guys I know.
Take advantage of the next downturn. Stuff gets cheaper. My partner and I got great deals on a couple of our rental properties.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
The idea of FIRE appeals to me, yet scaling too far back or downsizing too far down seems too much of a sacrifice. I need to get to that sweet spot in terms of level of wealth as well as the physical spot that allows my money to go further to give us the lifestyle that we want.
I have a friend whose goal is to work no more than 15 hours a week, but still make a solid 6-figures. Not exactly FIRE, but more Financial Independence, Scale Back. FISB. Doesn’t have as nice a ring to it, but I like this too. Keep the mind and body active, but give a LOT more time pursuing the lifestyle choices you like.
What are your retirement plans?
I remember my wife and I meeting this guy in the Caribbean once who spent 4 months in Europe, 4 months in the Caribbean and 4 months somewhere south of the equator. He wasn’t married and said he wasn’t all that rich, but he had it worked out so that he could support his lifestyle.
We know that with a family it’s a bit tougher, but this guy set something of a goal in our minds. Eventually we plan to split our time between a couple of places we love. Haven’t figured out exactly where, but we will.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
Health care and all that.
I’m also concerned with my bucket list – will I actually do all the things on my list that I was too busy to tackle while I was working. Learning to play an instrument. Getting a black belt in something. Learn to code. Write that novel. Make that movie. I need a bucket list boss.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it ‘click’? Was it from family, books, forced to learn as wealth grew, etc.?
My dad has always been a good businessman. Frugal, yet giving. In it for the long haul. He’s been a great role model and has also shared a lot of advice including good books he’s read.
One of my favorites is “Investment Biker” by Jim Rogers. He was this fund manager who motorcycled around the world with his girlfriend and looked at investment ideas in a lot of countries based on his being on the ground, hanging with locals, and seeing how these countries functioned first hand. This appeals to me.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
My anti-hero is D Trump. As supposedly rich as he says he is, why isn’t he out there using all of his power and wealth and resources to actually help the little guy instead of doing the opposite? Why isn’t Bill Gates or Warren Buffet president? Their Giving Pledge is inspiring. Why would anyone need $1 billion let alone $100 billion? You’ve conquered commerce, now it’s time to conquer poverty and disease and hate and education and over-population.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
I give to educational charities and programs that helped me/were close to me or that are local to my communities. Clubs that support exchange programs. Programs that build international awareness. I give more when times are more stable and spend more time volunteering when things have been less certain. I also like doing the occasional random mini-charity – paying the toll for the car behind me; buying a stranger’s lunch. Not often, but once in a while when I’m feeling sporty. This supports my weird faith in karma.
When I was in high school I got involved in a program that was like a mini Peace Corps. I spent several years volunteering and raising money to help fund projects that would send groups of us overseas to work on health projects in poor, rural areas. These projects were designed to help the poor in very impoverished areas, but later I came to understand that most of the funds we raised came from targeting the poor in the US. This didn’t sit very well with me and I stopped supporting the program until management changed the focus of their fundraising to target wealthy Americans.
Because of this I’ve come to despise companies that prey on the poor. Companies that charge to cash checks (Walmart, Check Into Cash, King Soopers, etc.), make payday loans, charge too high bank fees if you don’t have enough in your account, etc., are not building good karma. Am I being too sanctimonious? Sue me.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
I do, but have not fully fleshed it out yet. I don’t want the restrictions of a 529 for education and I also don’t want my kids to see anything until they’re into their 30s or 40s and know they are already working hard. But I also want my kids to have the luxury to truly do what they want. If they want to be a teacher, they shouldn’t be punished by the market’s backward logic. If they want to be video gaming champion, however, they better pray for a miracle.
Accidental FIRE says
Great job and I love the humor! I’m on the Financial Independence, Scale Back. FISB plan as it’s Monday and I’ll be off today and tomorrow. I went part time and I think it’s a great middle ground between full work and full FIRE
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
Thanks 🙂 I still need to weight more towards the SB. I actually miss working for corporate – if only could SB there. The “work” part was crummy, but I loved the peeps and the perks.
Lily | The Frugal Gene says
I honestly to all heaven haven’t laughed so hard at a money interview as much as this one before. Lol the spending rant and ESI’s editor note bawahaha 🙂
“But I also want my kids to have the luxury to truly do what they want. If they want to be a teacher, they shouldn’t be punished by the market’s backward logic. If they want to be video gaming champion, however, they better pray for a miracle.”
Yes I generally agree with, this just to add 🙂 :)…. those video game champions…done right…do make a killing $$$. One gamer in South Korean has $5 million a net worth and a very hot girlfriend. Same for pro poker players too! XD
My age fluctuates too as I get older 🙂 🙂
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
I agree that those video gamers who do well can make some big money. If my kids choose that route, they better pray they hit it big, however, because they will have to rely on that 100%. 🙂
JeffB MI20 says
That is like one of them becoming the next LeBron. .00001% of it happening
Chadnudj says
“Married for 16 years.”
“During the tech bubble of 2002 I quit my job because of a girlfriend. As soon as I quit, she dumped me – of course. ”
There’s a story there, I imagine….because wow, it seems you moved on fast.
Jason says
There are a few things in this interview that don’t exactly add up. I’m happy he shared, but hard to understand exactly what he did for all those years living in China. Where is his wife from? where did he go to school? How did he get into the beach rentals? what are daily rentals? where exactly are the rentals? how does it work with his partner?
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
In China (and around Asia) I worked for a large MNC. My wife is from the region (not China). I went to school in the US, but also studied in several countries in Asia.
I bought the beach rentals with a partner. Two are in Hawaii, one is in Mexico. Daily rental means you rent them out on a daily basis, not weekly or monthly or yearly or by the decade, century, or millennium. As with most partnerships, we share expenses, profit, and management.
Do things add up now?
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
Fortunately my wife isn’t reading this blog, so SHHHHHHH! 😉
The Physician Philosopher says
You saved my favorite part for the end:
“If they want to be a teacher, they shouldn’t be punished by the market’s backward logic. If they want to be video gaming champion, however, they better pray for a miracle.”
As the husband of a teacher, thank you for saying that 🙂
As a dad, I completely agree. I’ve always said that if my kids want to pursue something that may not make a lot of money, but is a noble pursuit, I’d like to be able to support them. Particularly if they have an entrepreneurial spirit about it. I am happy to loan them some money to start up a project that they are passionate about.
It sounds like your success has been a combination of hard work, discipline, and being in the right place at the right time. Thanks for the good example.
TPP
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
Thanks for your comment – it’s all about the journey! I like the idea of supporting the pursuit of something noble.
Cheers!
Sean @ Frugal Money Man says
Count me on board with FISB, or at least wanting to obtain FISB status.
The idea of not working at all does not bring me thrill. The idea of doing exactly what I want for roughly the same pay, at the fraction of the time really excites me!
Great interview
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
The second positive comment on FISB 🙂 How can I monetize that?
Thank you!
M says
Very interesting perspective as someone that has spent so much time overseas! I liked
the comment about owning a house — there is no stigma in renting.
One question that I have is regarding Social Security. How does that work for someone
that worked overseas….did you still contribute? Is there a strategy such that you can get
to the necessary years of work?
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
My strategy on Social Security has become to completely not rely on it in any way, shape or form. I have paid US taxes living overseas each year, but what exactly that will contribute to me when I’m 65 I don’t know and I can’t count on it. I never worked for a US company until last year (and am not happy to see any of my salary go towards SS).
In several of the countries I worked my salary was also taxed for retirement. In one instance I was able to opt out and in another I’ll get back a few hundred bucks when I hit 65, but I only worked there for about 3 years so am not expecting much 🙂
Tom says
“My anti-hero is D Trump. As supposedly rich as he says he is, why isn’t he out there using all of his power and wealth and resources to actually help the little guy instead of doing the opposite?”
One would argue he is doing that more than Buffet or Gates. Most Americans will get more of their own money back this year. How is that not helping?
“conquer poverty and disease and hate ”
How does one conquer hate?
DaveS says
Good points. I talked to my accountant and we were discussing the new individual taxes for 2018. He said they really do benefit the lower income. Plus there are now more limits on deductions for the more wealthy. Loopholes I’m sure exist still in some cases. But if you listen to the media you wouldn’t believe it.
Anyway- this interview give me mixed feelings- some good take aways for sure… but some points rubbed me the wrong way.
Yeah- hate and evil have existed since humans have lived… no cure for that sadly.
Tom says
I agree about the mixed feelings. I don’t know how much I will take away from this one.
I’ll cut him some slack since he said he hasn’t really lived in the US for a long time so all he has to go off is what the Media is saying.
Bill says
I can’t tell if you guys are joking or not, if not….yikes?
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
Bill – they are not joking. Which is incredibly sad.
I have lived in many countries where ALL news is FAKE news. In communist countries like China and Vietnam, you come to expect it. Every year there are huge vigils on June 4 in Hong Kong to celebrate the thousands who gave their lives during the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown. Today, in China, 100% of the people you survey will never have even heard of this. Even in modern societies such as Japan or Singapore, the news is highly controlled. Having moved back to the US at the same time that this amoral, undisciplined, unintelligent, demagogue somehow manages to get elected to the highest office was appalling enough. The fact that ANYONE could support such a corrupt and unprincipled person merely because he cut their taxes or has flip-flopped to now pretend he is pro-life to appease his base makes me sick. You could double my taxes and I’d still figure out how to make money. How much of your soul have you sold to feel good about the extra 5% this jackass has saved you?
So to all of you who have the gall to say you “cut me some slack” or that you think I’m “short sighted” let me challenge you to go spend some significant time in a country where the government controls the media. Where authoritarian rule is the way of the land. You will see how much you have come to take your freedom for granted. When the irony of who is actually short sighted begins to open your eyes, come back and then let’s talk.
Oh, and by the way, you can conquer hate – with truth.
Carlos says
You are totally proving our point.! We are there my friend on Fake News and disinformation. Look at the double disinformation going on in social media. The FBI leaking info so the “main stream” media reports on it, and then the FBI uses these media reports as an excuse they (FBI) need to investigate such claims based on ‘anonymous’ sources when the source is themselves (FBI) …
Plz, you have been drinking the cool-aid …
FISB (copyright) says
First of all, my “friend,” my point was about how D Trump lacks morals and is a disgusting human being and that no matter what benefits he may bring in terms of tax breaks or conservative policies, that he is a poor excuse for a leader, he is a poor example for our children, and is the wrong man for the job. I do not like a lot of the direction the US government has been following, even before D Trump. If a candidate shows up with a strong moral character and demonstrates ability to disrupt the existing system for the better – democrat, republican or other – I would be excited to listen. But sacrificing your own ethics and beliefs to support such an awful person is very telling about your own character. And if your ethics and beliefs were already in line with those of D Trump then I will cross the street to stay away from you.
In terms of a free press, you can’t have it both ways. You either accept the crap with the facts or you move to China where every word published in public is vetted by the government and the only information you can access is that which the government deems acceptable. Oh, and I should add, that if you ever took it upon yourself to criticize that government, then you go to jail (or worse). I think half of what the press does in the US is reprehensible. But it is the price to be paid for allowing real reporters to dig deep and uncover truth, no matter how ugly or disliked. So go and live in your bubble of conspiracy theories and hatred for a press that you disagree with, but until you take me up on my challenge of living without a free press, I don’t think we have much more to discuss. But hey, keep up with the “Fake News” rants and keep labeling the press the “Enemy of the State” and you may be able to experience this without even leaving the confines of the flag you have wrapped yourself in.
You know, people, this was supposed to be an interesting journey about how people made there millions. And my direction was to infuse my story with a bit of humour and fun – not to get distracted by politics. So in keeping with the theme of Financial Independence, let’s return to the fun with a couple of redneck money-related jokes by Jeff Foxworthy:
You might be a redneck if…
…your retirement plans include getting your own place.
…you carry a case of beer to your tax audit.
…the family business requires a lookout.
…your financial planner told you to buy lottery tickets.
…you think the stock market has a fence around it.
Enjoy!!
John says
I didn’t vote for Trump. But “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is a real thing — and it has officially come to ESI Money!
FISB (copyright) says
I know 🙂
Went a little off topic. Thanks for steering us back!
Spaceman Spiff says
Nice. Well put and right on the money. Trump is amoral. All you have to do is to listen to the words that come out of his mouth, and the actions that he admits too and boasts about. Yet he can never say or do anything that his supporters would disagree with.
Other than that, thanks for the interview. One of the more interesting ones ESI has had in a while!
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
You can attack the man all you want but the results are speaking for themselves. As I said earlier, I voted more for the platform than I did the politician and on that score, he has not let me down. Our economy is growing, our interest rates are being managed to guide us into a softer landing, as they should, so we can wind down the accommodations made when the economy was heading toward a recession, our tough actions on trade are bringing countries who have been taking advantage of us for decades to the negotiating table to address some of these trade imbalances, our foreign diplomacy, though tough it may be, is getting world leaders to privately address our concerns all the while shouting in public their moral outrage, we are back to a Pro-Israel policy, we have conservative supreme court justices being named to the bench, we have stopped the worst of the Obamacare measures and will continue to find ways to improve what we can until it is fully repealed, we continue to see the ill-effects of illegal immigration manifesting itself into more and more crime while protecting those responsible in Sanctuary cites but that too will ultimately meet its match.
As far as the press goes, what we see today in terms of fake news has exponentially risen in the last decade or so. It used to be our press operated in a way that double and triple checked sources because they knew the companies they represented would get sued out the wazoo for daring to print, publish or show anything that was not gospel truth. Our liberalism of the last 10-20 years in the media and the legal system has stopped the media from being held accountable. We used to joke about the National Enquirer. Now it sits shoulder to shoulder with our mainstream media in terms of reputational accuracy.
You started your rant about the morals of Donald Trump. Really? I don’t excuse his past as I mentioned in my earlier response but I also don’t see any evidence of illicit moral behavior occurring while in office. Can you say the same for the liberal’s beloved Bill Clinton or John Kennedy? Both hosted dens of iniquity right in the Oval Office. Clinton found a new way to smoke cigars and the Kennedy brothers had no problems passing Marilyn Monroe back and forth between them, among others, all while they were elected to the highest offices in the land.
And finally, I don’t need to live in other countries to appreciate the freedoms I enjoy here. But you can certainly feel free to return anytime you want.
DaveS says
Very articulate and well said and I agree wholeheartedly. I too voted mostly for the platform. I do abhor the way Trump behaves- it’s so frustrating- but as you pointed out he’s got company on the other side. I keep thinking of his McCain comment and it really bugs me. But alas I could never get myself to vote for the alternative.
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
The McCain comment was below the belt. I live in Arizona and the man was a hero and deserves to be recognized for it. I do have a hard time forgiving him for casting the deciding vote that kept Obamacare from being repealed. In his last election campaign for the Senate, he promised his vote to repeal if re-elected and reneged. But, he isn’t the first politician to do that. I think he just could not get over the fact that Trump could get elected President and he couldn’t. In the end, his votes suggested more RINO than true Republican but it doesn’t take away from his many accomplishments and service to our country.
RIP JM! The country salutes you.
FISB (copyright) says
I don’t excuse any immoral behaviour. Ever. Not his. Not Clinton’s. Not JFK’s. Not yours. Not my own. You think it’s ok that even though he used incredibly racial slurs before he was elected that it doesn’t matter? What, has he demonstrated changed? And after getting elected you say? Hmmm. Let’s see. What about Pocahontas? “Shithole” countries? Endorsing Roy Moore? Not condemning the alt-right? Lying thousands of times? More importantly, show me one instance of Trump’s moral leadership since election. Any fireside chats espousing civility and character? Any displays of true bipartisanship? Maybe too difficult. How about something simpler: you ever hear him say he was sorry? Ever?
How easy it is to gloss over the darkness as long as I get a few extra bucks in my pocket, eh?. Those bumps you feel on your head come from the deal you made with the devil.
Tom says
You are just proving our point. You are getting emotional when you should be thinking logical. It’s evident with your multiple paragraph responses. You hate this man so much that your blinders are put on to any accomplishments in this country since 1/20/16.
If you think the media in this country is truly free press, then you’ve been outside of the US for too long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fHfgU8oMSo
Also the fact that you would walk across the street from people who voted for someone else speaks more of your character than anyone else’s. Is tolerance only a 1 way street?
You decided to use your soapbox to make this political.
Carlos says
Agreed!
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
I didn’t like the D Trump comment either as it seems short-sighted, and just the ongoing repeat of the liberal party line or fake news that somehow becomes opinion the more it is repeated. First, I didn’t vote for the man as much as I did for the platform, (Pro-Life, Pro-Business, Pro-Legal Immigration, Protected borders, Pro-Tax Policy, Smaller government, Lower trade deficits, Strong Military, better healthcare/lower costs, etc.). The Democratic platform seems to be nothing more than just say no to anything Trump is for. They act like they would rather see the country fail than for Trump to succeed.
I don’t agree with many of the immature statements and moral failings of the President but I do believe his policies are “lifting all boats” and giving the little guy and those in need more opportunities to participate and grow. I don’t want the government supporting everyone in need but I do want the government to create an environment that allows everyone opportunity to pull themselves up and participate in a growing, dynamic economy. If we really weren’t doing that, you wouldn’t continue to see such a strong influx of legal and illegal immigration going on in this country. We are still the best game in town for other people around the world coming here and looking for opportunities to enhance and improve the lives of their families.
God Bless America!
Rich e. Rich says
Amen Brother! In 50 years I’ve never met one person leaving the U.S. because of our Constitutional Republic. Only foreign people over coming obstacles to get a slice of it.
L says
Trump was not the president the last 50 years. You can be sure more Americans are considering leaving now than ever
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
Well, its a shame the Hollywood crowd couldn’t keep their promises to move to Canada if Trump got elected. You may believe folks that say they are considering it but funny how very few of them actually do it.
JeffB MI20 says
It costs too much money for most to give up their citizenship. That is the true barometer for those fed up. Most are dual citizens anyway just escaping the IRS rules.
Mark says
So, my email has been inundated by comments from this interview, and now I see why. My anti hero is D. Trump, one statement and this post turns into political commentary. I took it for what it was, tongue in cheek with a tinge of truth.
No one knows how to stick his foot in the mouth better than Trump, and I hated Hillary.. The one thing I liked is how the stock market has gone through the roof because of the Trump effect. Thank you Mr. Trump that is until January 26 when everything just came to a stand still and Trump began his trade rhetoric. Shut up Mr. Trump.
The market has gone nowhere since the 26th. Now we are in a more precarious situation since we are approaching the end of the economic cycle.
But I thought the statement was innocuous, and the interview was quite funny.
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
January 26 was an all-time High so it is interesting that you want to set that as your benchmark for comparison. How about we use the more conventional metric of YTD performance:
YTD S&P 500 is +7.4%, Annualized = 11.1%
YTD Dow 30 is +5%, Annualized = 7.5%
Nasdaq is +13.6%, Annualized = 20.4%
Given the rise in interest rates and coming off a strong 2017, I’d be thrilled if the YTD trend continues with these type of annualized results for 2018. What the President “says” may move the markets slightly up or down for a few days; what he actually accomplishes makes a difference for months and potentially years to come.
Arrgo says
I liked what you said about giving up nonsense spending/ clutter and its all true. Its usually just money down the drain and turns into clutter after a few months or a year. I’ve got a lifetime of stuff in drawers, closets, rooms etc that I have to go through and I’m going to waste a lot of my time doing it. It does hold you back from spending your time and money on better more productive things. I cut everything back a few years ago but still have to spend the time and energy cleaning everything up.
FISB (copyright) says
“If one’s life is simple, contentment has to come. Simplicity is extremely important for happiness. Having few desires, feeling satisfied with what you have, is very vital: satisfaction with just enough food, clothing, and shelter to protect yourself from the elements.”
–The Dalai Lama
FtMaster says
This one was certainly different! A very interesting read and very different than many of the other millionaire interviews.
We are an average family in the “millionaire next door” category and I totally agree with the “stuff weighs you down” concept. I can speak from experience on this. We did a whole house remodel a few years back which had us move out of our home for 6 months. We had to completely empty the house and move out. We had a huge garage sale, sold much of our stuff, donated lots of stuff to charity and what was left (that we felt we needed to keep) we put into storage until the remodel was finished. While the construction was going on (and burning lots of cash in the process) Our family of four (two elementary school aged kids) lived in our 350 ft2 back house. Very small space, one bathroom, one closet, one TV, minimal everything. Set up a makeshift kitchen in our garage on folding tables. It really struck me that as we lived in our tiny quarters with way less stuff, we were absolutely no less happy, in fact we were actually closer as a family. and life was actually maybe even a little better. Really made me rethink the need for all the “stuff” and bigger fancier house. When we moved back in, we never really replaced all the “stuff” we sold, and much of the junk we put into storage we also decided to shed rather than unpack and put back into the new house. Once you do a big purge and get rid of junk you have been toting around for years it gets easier. You really don’t need it, and it doesn’t make you any happier. The less you have, the easier it is. If you don’t have to dust it, store it, clean it, maintain it etc….more trouble free life! Everybody should try to do a big purge every few years. The garage sale process is a good reminder to not buy all that junk in the first place! As you are selling all your junk for pennies on the dollar (or donating for free) you realize you never really needed the stuff to begin with. Many purchases now i can talk my wife out of, by simple stating – “if we buy this we will just be storing this under our roof for a while until we we can put it into the next garage sale – how about we just not buy it.”
PS – The house remodel, extra square footage, new floors, new paint, bigger closet, fancy appliances, gourmet kitchen increased our family’s happiness by exactly ZERO. You really don’t need this stuff. I am hoping some husband can show this to some wife out their and avert a similar project at their house! : )
FISB (copyright) says
As Leonardo da Vinci once said, “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”
In Japan, it is good karma to get rid of items you haven’t used in a year as not only do they add clutter, but they are weighted with the negative energy of not being used or not providing function.
Mark says
You had me when you said your wife’s age fluctuates. Haha you have to start a blog. This was by far the funniest thing I have read. Love your idea on travel and giving to exchange programs.
I liked your comment on tipping. Never could figure out why we tip the way we do regardless of how well the service is.
https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-82/
FISB (copyright) says
Thanks Mark – appreciate the commentary. Travel and exchange programs have definitely shaped who I’ve become.
Would that I had time to blog. I am striving for the scaling back part of my plan. Give me a few more years 🙂
Cheers!
DaveS says
WRT tipping. In many places in Europe (and likely others) the tip is included so to speak- the customer still pays for it. I’m guessing that the employer charges more so they can pay wait staff more. However I personally hate that- as I’d rather have the flexibility as a customer to reward superior service and in rare cases- not be charged for poor services (or worse- an attitude problem). If someone is exceptional I will pay well… I like it that way. I want the wait staff to work harder or be more pleasant to earn more of my money.
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
Tipping is America’s BS platform to allow the food service industry to avoid paying a living wage. The servers who receive tips in the US are absolutely no better than any of the servers you find any where else in the world who don’t receive tips.
If tipping were truly used to reward service, then I would be completely behind it. But “punishing” your server by dropping from 22% to 15% misses the mark. And if you truly punished them by leaving 0% it is you who would be seen as the bad guy.
There are some interesting recent articles floating about that look at the history of tipping in the US and its racist past and present. If true, to read that non-white servers take home only 56% of what their white counterparts receive in tips is pretty appalling.
https://splinternews.com/the-racist-history-of-tipping-1798704699
I’m sure everyone is loving my continued sanctimony. When I go out in the US, I do tip. I do not like it though.
DaveS says
Well I politely disagree. I’ve worked in the service industry myself in the past and most make well more than minimum wage when all is said and done. Not liking your anti-American rhetoric honestly. Also fwiw- why is it the employer’s “need” to provide a living wage- which it and of itself means nothing. It’s feel good BS that doesn’t fit well to my views of the world and capitalism.
And your racist comments are disgusting.
FISB (copyright) says
Hey DaveS,
Robber barons unite!! The Rockefeller heirs are having a chapter meeting tonight at at The Plaza! You’re invited.
I am not anti-American. I am anti-tipping. From my observations of those who have worked as a server in a restaurant vs. those who have not, it seems the large majority think that tipping is a vital part of life. My observation of countries that tip vs. those that don’t has shown me that tipping makes no difference in the quality of service. So perhaps I am a bit biased in not having worked as a food server in my life, but by the same token is it possible that you are biased on the other end? Spend a good amount of time in non-tipping countries and you’ll see that much of the world gets by without this burden.
Am I anti-American if I say I prefer a BMW to a Ford? Am I anti-American if I say I prefer Camembert cheese to cheddar? I don’t like tipping in the US. I think it’s idiotic. Sue me.
By the way, saying my comments are racist is not very polite. I’m hoping you meant you didn’t like my comments about racism surrounding tipping. There are dozens of articles and studies that you can easily find online that describe how tipping was rooted in racist policies that begun as a method to pay ex-slaves less money than they should have been. There are numerous studies and articles that share results from modern day research that demonstrate how nonwhites receive less tips than whites do today. I am not using this as an excuse for not tipping in the US. I am saying that for historic reasons and for reasons of fairness, the US should move on from its present tipping model to a straight cost-based one.
DaveS says
Worded poorly I guess. I was not calling you a racist… but I have no issue with tipping… and giving me the ability of how much to tip for good service or great service is something I like. I was a paperboy too when I was a kid… loved getting good tips. Even though it didn’t provide me with a living wage it allowed me to buy comic books and candy. How’s that for lightening things up a bit?
JeffB MI20 says
The restaurants that have tried to eliminate tipping have very unhappy servers. It might not be perfect, but plenty of people are still waiting tables because at a good restaurant, you can make good money.
JTC says
Really enjoyed this one and we are almost identical in NW and age, two boys, etc… Only thing that didn’t tie – the lectures about frugality – yet a $1.4MM home. Another reminder that “we all spend our money in different ways”. My neighbor laughs at my $4k bicycle but owns a $500k two seat car.
Mr. FISB (copyright) says
Ha – thanks. My crazy expensive home (which is also double the size of what my family needs) was bought as an investment. The sellers were a bit distressed and I got it 20% under market. We don’t plan to live here more than 5 or 6 years, and both my wife and I really can’t wait to downgrade.
My frugality with the house continues in the form of my family contributing to all its maintenance. My son begs me to be the one to cut the grass in front so the neighbour kids don’t see him doing some embarrassing labour.
I agree totally with you spending money on a proper bike (as I have). May a flock of birds target your neighbour’s ridiculous car when he has the top down!
Sam says
I advocated for simple, frugal living without being wasteful and celebrate small victories in savings. My wife had a princess attitude, detests my lifestyle and embarrassed me in public. I dumped her! She now gets 50% share of my savings though…..who said life is fair?
FISB (copyright) says
Ouch!
Stay positive, brother. You got the other 50% and hopefully some solace in knowing that it’s even harder for your ex to live a princess lifestyle with only half of what she previously had 🙂
Take care!
RocDoc says
Really enjoyed this interview! I was laughing from the first sentence of your wife’s age fluctuating. You could write a really hilarious screenplay if you decide to eventually make that movie on your bucket list. You have lived a great life and I appreciated and was fascinated by your impressions of American life. It’s informative to hear your objective observations. Also liked the rant and ESI’s little commentary. Great interview! One of the best yet!
FISB (copyright) says
Thanks RocDoc!
Truly appreciate that you thought my observations were objective. Happy to collaborate on the screenplay!
Have a good one!
ESI says
All — This is exactly why I do not post on political topics. I only left the comment above in because it was in answer to a question, not something I brought up. In the future I will request comments like this to be changed for obvious reasons.
Can we please focus the conversation on personal finances? If you want to chat about politics, surely there are better sites for that, right? 🙂
FISB (the original) says
Hi ESI,
You are 100% correct that this is not the forum for the type of political disparagement that ensued and I am very sorry to have added gas to the fire. Very disrespectful of me and I promise to keep things totally financial when I do my next round for your Billionaire Interviews (preview – I will be giving away half!).
Thank you again for the invite. It was fun homework.
Cheerios!
Mark says
I find very few stand up comedians funny, but I think you should sell some of those lines, because even your comments are funny/ ???
JeffB MI20 says
Except tax policies from Congress affect our personal finances. I don’t think anyone has mentioned Smoot Hawley since Ferris Bueller. Presidents don’t control the economy, but Business likes predictabilty.
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
If you allow the political rants in the initial interviews then you have to expect that people are going to respond to them. I agree this isn’t the site for that.
Mark says
Well first of all, FISB made no political rant. It was one sentence. It was a statement based on his belief and/or opinion.. It wasn’t meant to start a political diatribe.
You may not agree with his opinion, but why does it have to cause such discourse.
This was a great interview, and I can tell FISB would be a great guest at a cocktail party because I am sure the humor he showed in this interview is natural. He probably has everyone rolling on the floor.
I am now afraid to check notify me of follow-up comments ???
Paper Tiger (aka MI 27) says
Fair points, no issue here. I agree the rant was more in the follow up. We probably would have a different guest list at our parties 😉
Bygones.
Norwegian guy says
I have read every single interview and this have got be one of the best ones yet. Made me laugh! 🙂
Good work on the saving and investing side of Things!
Like you, i also dislike the tipping culture in the US. I Norway we are luckily spared from this as restaurant employes are paid a livable salary. This is mainly because of good unions. Sadly for the average joe in the US, unions seem to almost have disappeared.
When on vacation there i ofcourse give a tip, but mainly because i know people make shit if not for the tip.
If you where to relocate in Retirement outside the US, where would you go?
Best of luck on your future Investments 🙂
FISB (copyright) says
Hey Norwegian guy!
Thanks for backing me up on the tipping :). If only us Gringos could learn a thing or two.
I think we will likely be retiring in Japan. Great healthcare, great food, beautiful country. I have yet to make it to Norway, but it is high on the list. Where should we visit?
All the best!!
Norwegian guy says
A lot of beautifull places to visit in Norway. I live in Bergen on the westcoast. Here you have the gateway to the fjords. Also Lofoten is very nice. I was there this summer. Stunning scenery! Rent a car and buy a cheap tent for camping and buy your food mostly at the grocery store and its really not that expensive as evertone would have it. But again, i guess you could afford the hotels and fancy Airbnb if you wanted to 🙂
FISB (copyright) says
Thanks Norwegian guy 🙂
Sounds amazing.
Did you not read my points on frugality? Fancy AirBnb? Please. We’re staying in your garage.
Dean J says
I have to say I really enjoyed this interview, mainly because the interviewee seemed truly genuine in his responses. The talk of being frugal and more efficient in one’s daily lives is very inspiring to me. Also, doing most of his heavy lifting outside the US is extremely risky, and this guy nailed it, by a long shot. It’s one thing to gain financial independence on familiar soil, but it’s a totally different animal to get there in another country. And I love his humor! I think he’s hilarious. Great job FISB, very colorful and comes across as very genuine. One of my best reads! Thank u , and ESI , for doing the interview.
FISB (copyright) says
Thanks Dean J!
It’s funny (and not very obvious until much later) how everything in one’s life is connected from moment to moment. You start down a path and you think it’s going in a specific direction and suddenly an event leads you astray and you ask yourself, “how the heck did I end up working as a fish importer with a bunch of high school dropouts (true story)?”
I doubt those semi-youngsters out there would ever listen to us semi-oldsters, but had someone helped me connect those dots a little better in my 30s I could have probably got here a bit faster. Actually, it’s not even about the money – I would have just liked to have gotten to the stuff I liked to do faster (working as a fish importer was not part of the plan).
I’m rambling here, but your comment made me think a little of some of the choices I made and how I progressed from stage to stage. I definitely missed out on a lot of great opportunities, but when I did make those leaps with those I felt were true “enterprisers” I generally seemed to make out ok.
Thanks for the kind comments!
Cody @ Dollar Habits says
Don’t mind me; I’m just here for the comments. 😉
Loved the interview, your humor and your perspective. Great job! Count me as a subscriber to your future blog. Best of luck with your co-working space. That is a really interesting industry with a lot of potential.
FISB (copyright) says
Thanks Cody!
I feel bad – I was just hear to tell some stories about money and got sidetracked.
Back to the show! Thanks for the well wishes – we need every ounce of luck out there.
Cheers!
Pam Webster says
Great interview. Best ESI interview that I have read. I too enjoyed the humour in your financial life story. I would welcome your company at a cocktail party:) Looking forward to your “Billionaire” interview. All the best.
FISB (copyright) says
Thanks Pam!
I promise that once I have my Billionaire Interview I will throw a huge party and you’re all invited.
Peace!
FtMaster says
The comments on this particular interview include some unusual tangents, tirades about politics, presidents, tax policy and..strangely tipping. Weird thread.
I will add to the mix with some comments in favor of tipping, and why. I speak from personal experience here. Long time tip earning server prior to my current career.
Disclaimer – This has absolutely nothing to do with financial independence other than the hustle associated with earning tips as a server.
I worked all through college as a server. I liked the job. I liked the tips and I liked the system of small hourly pay plus tips. It rewards hard work. It didn’t bother me at all that I was making minimum wage. The minimum wage was my meager base pay, the tips, which were significantly greater than my base was where the real money was. The tips, most importantly were directly proportional to the effort and hustle I put in. Capitalism at its finest. Do good, provide a service people value, get paid more, do bad, get paid less and maybe even get relegated to the low earning day shift.
I have traveled around the planet a bit, and found that the places where there was a tippling culture typically provided better service in places with a non tipping culture. If a great server is paid exactly the same as a horrible server..what is the motivation to strive to be a great one? why hustle? Slow one is paid the same as a fast one….why be fast?
I hustled and was pretty good at it. Made what I thought at the time was great money in tips at several very mediocre to low end restaurants. This was NOT fine dining. The paychecks were minimum wage, and became nearly trivial after taxes on the tips were deducted. I would sometimes go months without cashing the checks as they were so small. I did not find this insulting at all. Low wages helped keep the menu prices lower which allowed me to sell more food to make more tips on.
I was not an unusual case. The places I worked typically had a server staff of 40+ to cover both day and night shifts. The good servers all made good money and we typically liked it. The bad ones didn’t..and of course complained about the low tips and would then eventually move on to other jobs.
Tipping good – it rewards good service!
Mark says
Liked your comments on Tipping and I have no qualms about tipping for good service. My pet peeve is that the percentage on how much we pay for service keeps going up. Food goes up with inflation. I describe my pet peeve on tipping here
https://www.theretirementspt.com/2018/07/15/are-you-frugal-or-cheap-or-are-you-frugal-bordering-on-cheap/
MI-77 says
I too have mixed feeling about Trump. He’s immoral,unethical, added to the swamp instead of draining it, and an open racist as his most supporters. On the other side, he did deregulate and reduced my tax by 10-15 percent. So should I be anti-Trump so our next generation have a better place to live? or should I be selfish and be pro-Trump so I can make more money? For me, it’s a moral struggle and at the end of the day, I would not be voting for Trump in 2020. I like my future kids to know black and white and right from wrong. God Bless America.
https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-77/
FISB (copyright) says
Appreciate it, señor! If the cost of right from wrong is 10-15% it’s the price you gotta pay 🙂
I re-read your interview – super interesting. Where’s your family originally from in China? I lived there (mostly Shanghai) for 15 years and feel it’s my second home. Would love to know more about your healthcare business.
All the best!
Tom Murin says
Many people already covered the anti-Trump rant. I’d like to add the old quote from Reagan (this may trigger a different rant) that “The best anti-poverty program is a job.” Look at the unemployment rate.
Paul says
Congrats and well done Mr FISB – great interview, a great international perspective as well – and you got jokes man !
A note to Mr ESI: I hear you with respect to staying away from political stuff on your website, but to me there is a clear political link between the # 1 concern of every smart, hardworking, successful Millionaire Interviewee ( duh…healthcare) and the nation’s political leadership’s ability and desire ( or lack thereof) to solve that problem. Any one who has looked at the data, at the business problem, the numbers and the outcomes regards the Affordable Care Act as a tremendous solution. People object to it only for political reasons.
Secondly – the US economy and MNCs have benefited for decades from US’ global leadership and respect. Now that we are picking fights with Canada, and making nice with Russian dictators who murder their enemies those benefits will diminish.
Love him or loathe him ( and boy, do I loathe him) the only success this President has actually achieved is gaining power and dividing the nation. What was once a relatively united society is now sectarian – us against them. Sectarian societies are no fun to live in.
ESI says
There are financial issues that have political implications, of course.
But this post is not about them.
And much of the discussion is not about money topics, but the character of a politician. IT’s not for here.
I will be closing down comments on this post as of now as it seems we can not get off the subject.