Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
My questions are in bold italics and her responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
Both my husband and I are 47. We’ve been married 12 years.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
We have three kids: a son who is 11, and a son and daughter who are 9-year old twins. Our daughter is loving, happy, and wonderful. She also has severe learning disabilities. A big financial concern is that she might not be able to live independently in adulthood.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
I’m an overseas American, and have been for 25+ years. Since graduating from university in the US, I’ve lived in 7 different developing countries on 3 continents. I currently live and work in rural Lebanon. My family lives separately, several hours’ drive away in Beirut. I visit them on weekends.
What is your job (type of work and level)?
I’m an aid worker. I work for a non-governmental organization (NGO) in the field of economic development. I’m currently a Country Manager, overseeing about 40 staff.
What is your current net worth?
USD 3.4m.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
Our entire net worth is in mutual funds, mostly Vanguard low-fee index funds: 45% in the S&P500 (VFIAX), 30% in small and medium cap companies (VEXAX), 15% in corporate bonds (VWETX), and the rest in non-US stock funds and US government bonds. We don’t own a house, and we have no debts.
What is your annual income?
My salary is USD 69,000 per year, but that can almost double with additional hardship pay, danger pay, housing and education allowances, and travel per diem.
I’ve had periods between jobs with no pay, but in general my salary has increased as I’ve climbed the career ladder. I was an intern, volunteer, lowly-paid worker, salaried worker and program manager, before becoming country manager. When I travel a lot or when I live in a turbulent area, I receive extra pay.
What is your main source of income (be as specific as possible — job, investments, inheritance, etc.)?
My job, and only my job. My mutual fund investments pay dividends, but I reinvest all of them. My husband came into our marriage with no savings, and he’s a stay-at-home dad.
What is your annual spending and what are the main expenses you have?
Our household expenditures are around USD 60,000, and we pay an additional USD 20,000 per year in medical and special education expenses for our daughter.
How did you accumulate your net worth?
I invested when I was young, and compound interest did its magic.
The majority of my net worth comes from the beginning of my career. A lot of expatriate workers use the low cost of overseas living plus the tax savings to have a good time. A lot spend their money on exotic travel, and some drink their salary away. But not everyone does that. I lived with extreme frugality, and plowed money into low-fee mutual funds. Even when my salary wasn’t very high, I saved up to 70% of my gross income.
In the first fifteen years of my career, I saved an average of USD 40,000 per year. That average varied a lot from year to year: one year was zero, for example. The average was USD 40,000 per year. After I got married my salary continued to go up, but my savings rate tapered off. In the last 10 years I’ve averaged USD 15,000 per year.
All of my savings went into mutual funds. My return on income (ROI) has averaged 9% per year. That’s not as spectacular as ESI’s return, but it’s roughly the same as the S&P500 over the same period, so I’m happy. That brings me to today’s total of USD 3.4m.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from (or something you’d do differently)?
One little and one big lesson.
The little lesson is that I should have taken greater advantage of tax-free savings. I didn’t put much into a regular IRA, a Roth IRA, or a 401(k). There are lots of reasons: my non-US employers don’t have 401(k)s; my taxes are complicated by overseas income; and I wanted my savings to be liquid since aid workers frequently lose their jobs. The problem is that now I pay a painful amount of taxes to the IRS every year on dividends and capital gains.
The major lesson is that I should have talked to my spouse more about money, and we might have saved more.
My husband is from Europe, and before we got married we talked a lot about cultural, family, and religious differences– but not enough about money. His country has high taxes and a social safety net (at least in theory), so savings are not a big deal. By the time I met him I was used to frugal living and high savings. We might have avoided a lot of marital stress (and saved more) if we’d talked more about money before we married. Instead we worked it out as we went along, which was sometimes a painful process.
A related lesson is that both spouses need to be financially literate, and need to monitor their financial situation. I used to blindly let my husband take care of the family finances. I figured I was busy being the full-time breadwinner, my husband has a degree in business, and as the homemaker he was making most of the expenditures. Only after I became more attentive and involved did we work out a lot of our differences.
What have you learned in the process of becoming wealthy that others can learn from (what can others apply to become wealthy themselves)?
Compound interest truly is magic! Save as much as you can as early as you can, and be patient. The payoff will be wonderful!
Another lesson is to save, save, save as much as you can, even if you don’t understand finance. I stayed simple, invested in what I could grasp, and firmly ignored what I didn’t understand. That’s prevented me from making some dumb mistakes, particularly when I was with some high-pressure financial salespeople.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
Living within our means. My husband and I still put some of my salary into our mutual funds, but it’s not as much as when I was single. After many years of discussions and disagreements, I’m now okay with that. My husband is probably correct that we’ve passed the point where dividends and capital gains exceed whatever we save from my salary. I have adjusted my attitude and expectations, and I enjoy life a little more.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
Not anymore. My husband and I originally targeted USD 3m, but that was before we had children. Our current lifestyle is interesting and sustainable in the short term, and we’ll stick with it for now. The deciding factor might be my employer’s next assignment. I really, really want a family-friendly duty station, where I can live with my kids. If my employer can’t find one for me, then it might be a good time to retire.
Another big factor is health care. We want to retire to the US, but my overseas career means we won’t have any employer-provided insurance. Also, my daughter’s special needs might be seen as a pre-existing condition. We’re paying close attention to the re-invigorated debate about America’s health care system and coverage.
Finally, we fear that the stock market might go down in the near future. Almost all of our net worth is tied up in American mutual funds, and it would be bad timing to retire just as a stock market correction hit.
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle (for instance, will your net worth allow you to retire early, downsize jobs, etc.)?
When the moment comes for us to retire, my husband and I will calculate our sustainable rate of withdrawal. We’ll use the 4% rule as a starting point, and see what’s possible. We hope to retire to a big city, taking into consideration that big cities are expensive, and we’ll need an apartment and neighborhood where both we and our daughter can live for the rest of our lives.
Is there any advice you have for ESI Money readers regarding wealth accumulation?
SAVE! Save as much as you can as soon as you can! The orthodoxy is that workers should save the most when their career income is the highest. That’s not what I did. I saved the most in the beginning of my career, and have never regretted it.
Bonus question: Is there a gender component to accumulating wealth? [Editor’s note: I allow interviewees to add extra questions if they like. Most don’t.]
Absolutely yes! Am I the only one who notices that ESI millionaire interviews are mostly (only?) with men? I had three big advantages in my career.
One, my parents fully supported my choices. They were willing to allow their single daughter to travel the world, including to some pretty worrying countries, and establish an overseas career.
Two, my current and long-term employer is very family friendly. They genuinely try to provide work-life balance. When I was pregnant, everyone was honestly overjoyed. I felt no pressure to work harder than my pregnancy allowed, or resentment from those who picked up the slack. In fact my (male) boss carefully outlined and strongly encouraged me to take all maternity benefits, including generous paid leave. When my maternity leaves were over, I returned to my old position without problems. My employer emphatically breaks the stereotype of a workplace that penalizes women for having babies.
Three, and perhaps most importantly, I have a rare and exceptional husband who supports me, my career, and our family. We’ve switched roles since I’m the breadwinner, and he’s the accompanying spouse and care-giver. He has moved with me from country to country, and he gave up his career to be a stay-at-home dad. This became particularly critical after the twins were born, and our daughter’s special needs were identified. It hasn’t been easy since his family only begrudgingly accepted the situation. I’m eternally grateful and appreciative. I can only hope that such men and such a situation will become more common in the future.
Men don’t have to worry about these three factors. They’re encouraged to see the world. It’s okay for them to work in a family-unfriendly environment, and prioritize career over family. And it’s much easier for a wife/mother to stay at home. That’s not fair. It’s changing, but not quickly enough.
Finally, I’m grateful to ESI and the other financial bloggers, and I hope we’ll see more women in the financial sphere. I agree with ESI that Suze Orman is unusual, and not someone that others (neither men nor women) can emulate. But Ms. Firecracker at Millennial Revolution and others are a good start. I hope I can contribute to the field myself someday.
This is the best Millionaire interview I have read. I agree with the answer provided on the gender question and I hope to see more women ..even single women writing their millionaire story
There are some single women millionaires around, for sure. I wish there were more, but I’ve certainly met a few!
I really like the bonus question and answer. Support from parents, work and a partner is incredibly helpful for women in their path to wealth… I’m glad this is part of the interview 🙂
Thanks for reading all the way to the end. 😉
Great meeting you last week!!!!
The gender equality question was good and it’s great to see a man being encouraged into a carers role.
Great interview. You have amassed a large net worth at a young age. You did so while living an adventurous life. Your career sounds very interesting.
I’ve wondered if the adventure and career are related to the savings rate. At the beginning of my career I enjoyed my job so much that I didn’t need to spend money on anything to be happy with my life. It emphasizes the old expression “do what you like, the rest will follow”.
Excellent interview. Very informative and inspiring. How long have you been investing in the stock markets? Thanks
This interview is exceptional and quite different than those previously. The numbers and the approach will certainly be inspirational to many.
Well done to our Millionaire and ESI for putting this story forward.
The means of earning and saving were different, as are the domestic circumstances and most other contextual elements compared to stories here and on other sites.
Brilliant interview!!
Totally agree that financial success for a woman is very different from men.
Typically being paid 80% of what men are paid for the same work, being passed over for promotions because of concern about family care responsibilities, and many other subtle workplace discriminations makes it even more difficult for women to be on par financially with men. Too many women recognize that the odds are stacked against them, especially in the US.
I totally agree with your point that financial achievements can be harder for women, but “especially in the US’ isn’t quite right. My current perspective is from the Middle East, where the workplace discrimination isn’t subtle at all.
Quite right. Patriarchy abounds. Not sure why we put up with it when women are, on average, 51% of the population.
Wow. As a parent of twenty-something daughters (who have expressed desire to work in similar situations) their dad has not been supportive of this idea at all.
Good for you to be able to follow your dreams.
There are lots of blogs and online stories of women who have done well in overseas jobs, even in dangerous places. Please make sure both your daughters and their dad sees them! It’s not an easy career choice, but it’s incredibly rewarding. Emphasize to their dad that the career isn’t as important as the character of the woman herself. Hard work, and the discipline to save money, will work in any career.
Many countries have lower crime rates (and certainly lower rates of gun violence) than the US. Always important to take an evidence-based approach!
MI 26, congrats on your financial and career success. You’ve managed to accumulate a sizable nest egg considering one income and a growing family. That would not be possible without discipline, clear focus on your goals and teamwork between you and your spouse. Your story is very inspirational and I wish you continued success and safe travels in your career.
Multiple get rich tenants applied. Love it.
1. Save and invest as much as you can early – it is kind of magical what happens.
2. Find a supportive spouse that shares your ideas, but can have healthy discussions regarding them even if difficult. It is not always unicorns and daisies, so having the ability to communicate with a positive result in mind is great.
3. Find an employer/boss that is supportive and the end result, with hard work, can be very rewarding inside and out.
Well done.
This interview really shows the power of compounding. Her salary was never outstanding, but through high savings rates, your net worth is very high.
Thanks for sharing ESI, great to meet you this past week.
Same here! See you in Orlando!
I agree with the interviewee’s concerns about a stock market correction, and feel that moving some of her index funds to an international or emerging markets fund might provide the diversification to reduce the risk.
The power of compound interest. This is a crazy good story that each kid graduating high school should know about.
Glad to FINALLY read a woman’s story on here. I, just like the interviewee, have noticed a huge male bias in this and most other financial blogs (Cue this: at the top of the interview, ESI writes “My questions are in bold italics and HIS responses follow in black.” [My emphasis] Hmmmm….). I enjoy reading the men’s interviews and have learned a lot from them, but it is true, as the interviewee notes, that women face special obstacles in their financial journey.
In all fairness, though, I suspect it’s at least partly due to women’s generally being less bent on sharing (bragging???) about their wealth than men seem to be.
As for content: Second, third, fourth the point about talking to one’s spouse-to-be about finances, and making sure both spouses are involved in finances from the very beginning!! Like the interviewee, my spouse and I come from very different financial backgrounds and seem to be separated by a gulf when it comes to making financial decisions. We did discuss money before marriage, but it is such a sensitive subject that, as we realized after getting married, we only grazed the surface…. We, too, have had (and still have) many arguments because we have VERY different attitudes, different priorities, and different approaches to money. We are still working things out. I hear people all the time saying, “Marry someone who feels the same way about money as you do.” There’s definitely strong reasons for this advice, but can you really choose a spouse on their attitude towards money? I think that there is room for growth as a couple on this front, just as there is on child rearing, work-life balance, and so many other important values in life.
Finally- to the interviewee, GOOD JOB!!!! Your simple strategy and consistent implementation, your frugality and vision, led your family to where you are today. I envy your position.
I’ve met lots of women who are good with finances. Maybe it’s true that they less willing to share or brag about it? I hope articles like this (and encouraging comments like yours!) help!
Oops! That’s what I get for copying and pasting the intro.
Fixed it!!!
Super powerful interview. I wish my save % was higher when I was younger! I thought a 401k max was good, but stories like this show the huge impact of a high save % when young!
I loved this interview. As a woman, I truly feel great when other women are doing a phenomenal job financially. Kudos, MI 26, for achieving financial success!
Great interview. Congratulations M26, for accumulating such a large net worth relative to your income. A true PAW (prodigious accumulator of wealth) as defined by Millionaire Next Door.
I can personally attest to the power of being able to save much of your income while living overseas. Work sponsored assignments can cover many living costs and tax treatments are favorable so there is a big reward for remaining frugal while living overseas.
M26 exemplifies this. Well done.
-Mike
Best interview yet!
I particularly appreciate the challenge of planning for your daughter. Your early aggressive investing will certainly take good care of you all in the long run.
All of the above comments ring through to the fact that this interview was super inspirational.
Thank you!
Lovelovelove this interview! Great topic at the end about gender and money.
I’d love to see a follow-up in a couple years once you’ve decided whether or not to retire/move. Here’s hoping the health-care issue in the US will stabilize.
Spectacular job millionaire 26! I really enjoyed this interview and am so impressed with not only your great savings but also your wonderful career. Your work story would make a great blog. More female millionaires ESI! Great story!
Great and time-tested formula as proven here! Low-cost funds, reinvestment, little to no debt! Congrats to them and continued success and finally inspiration to many of us! Thanks for sharing this 🙂
Just wanted to pop by and say great job Ms. 26 on giving a female perspective on doing this. Finance (and finance blogging) is heavily male-dominated so I love the diversity you bring to the table.
High Five!
Sorry to have missed you at Fin Con. I saw you in the lobby a couple times and meant to say hi, but I got distracted both times. 🙁
I think this is the best one for two reasons.
1. She was female which is great
2. Most of your interviews have people with high salaries of 200k+ and she didn’t.
Excellent interview. Very informative and inspiring. Quick question. How long she has been investing in the stock markets?
I bought my first mutual fund in 1991 or 1992.
As I said in the interview, my financial life is roughly divided into two parts. For 15 years I was single (and just married), and I managed to save around $40k/year. After the expenses of a family and a less-frugal husband kicked in, my savings went down to $15k/year.
I always invested everything I saved. Living overseas with bad internet connections actually helped me. I needed to be blind about investments, i.e. do them automatically, and ignore the market’s ups and downs (as well as financial salesmen).
In the early years of your career, what or who got you started saving and investing? I ask because investing wasn’t even on my radar when I was that age. Thanks!
I was literally sitting around a campfire and another American recommended that I put my incipient savings into mutual funds. Savings come more easily overseas, and such conversations are relatively common (if still furtive).
Let me repeat Mike H.’s comments: “Work sponsored assignments can cover many living costs and tax treatments are favorable so there is a big reward for remaining frugal while living overseas.” He’s absolutely correct. It’s also easier to be frugal in a developing country. Conspicuous consumption is awkward when everyone else is dirt poor, and sometimes it’s just plain impossible (there are no Eddie Bauer or Apple stores in refugee camps).
I was literally sitting around a campfire and another American recommended that I put my incipient savings into mutual funds. Savings come more easily overseas, and such conversations are relatively common (if still furtive).
Let me repeat Mike H.’s comments: “Work sponsored assignments can cover many living costs and tax treatments are favorable so there is a big reward for remaining frugal while living overseas.” He’s absolutely correct. It’s also easier to be frugal in a developing country. Conspicuous consumption is awkward when everyone else is dirt poor, and sometimes it’s just plain impossible (there are no Eddie Bauer or Apple stores in refugee camps).
This is my favorite interview by far because it featured a woman, who has a non-traditional career, non-traditional family situation, and not insanely high salary. As another female millionaire, I have noticed the dearth of women profiled. I also LOVED the last question and think that is spot on in showing how supportive people can help make things possible. I’d also like to point out that the smart business sense and supportive environment of Ms. 26’s employer has allowed a long-time employee to have three children, continue her work in countries with challenges not here in the US, and Work during the week away from her family. Great employer and smart business moves. When you consider that one of Ms. 26’s children has disabilities, it really shows how a supportive employer can retain a valuable employee by doing things like: being happy when you have a child, providing paid maternity leave, assisting with Work-life balance, etc. it’s not always about the short term bottom line, but the long term end game.
Well done Ms. 26 and family! And nice job ESI of publishing a different perspective.
Do your own interview! More women are needed! Just write ESI and be ready to provide answers to the usual questions.
“Men don’t have to worry about these three factors. They’re encouraged to see the world. It’s okay for them to work in a family-unfriendly environment, and prioritize career over family. And it’s much easier for a wife/mother to stay at home. That’s not fair. It’s changing, but not quickly enough.”
True, but I think the converse is also true. It’s okay for women to stay home and prioritize family over career. A good male friend of mine was laid off a few years ago, he and his wife have three young children, his wife makes good money in her career, so he decided to be a stay-at-home-dad for a few years. He used to get weird looks at cocktail parties when he told people he stayed home, from men and women alike. It got to the point that those of us closest to him knew not to bring it up as he didn’t even like talking about it. As long as men are primarily valued on how much they can provide (and conversely, as long as women are primarily valued on how well they nurture children), this won’t change.
VERY good point!!
My favorite interview yet! Amazing and inspirational story!
What a unique perspective as a mom primary breadwinner, without a high salary but an amazing savings rate. Also goes to show he powe of index funds. Well done Millionaire 26 and Family!
This is so impressive, but it also makes me regret the amount of time I spent (unwillingly) in higher education. Had I foregone college, I too could retire now. But now, despite a six figure salary, even if I work until I’m 60 I’ll never catch up.
I would never suggest college and certainly not grad school unless one goes part-time and works
to squirrel away money in one’s twenties. Full-time higher education is scam, pure and simple. Caveat emptor….
For me, the takeaway isn’t about the money, unusual career path, or female perspective, but one overriding universal concern: the cost of healthcare, or more pointedly, health insurance, since the delivery of services and quality vary so precipitously. Retiring to expensive city life with a major factor unknown certainly cuts into my appreciation of life at the 2 or 3 million mark . . . relativity strikes again. On that front, a single person with humble assets has better prospects for almost any medical need, as opposed to a married person sitting on one or two million. Let me repeat, a coworker’s wife had breast cancer; they both had health insurance. They are facing retirement with 800k in unpaid medical debt, and that’s just the one incident, her only . . . cost and coverage are everything. I also believe marriage leaves one more vulnerable, not less so. We can all afford to d die, whereas the actual cost and consequence of living varies WIDELY, especially here in the states.
Thanks for sharing the journey – I wonder when did you hit your first million and what did you change since then? Thanks!