Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
This interview took place in March.
My questions are in bold italics and their responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
We are both 60. This is the second marriage for each of us.
We met online, dated for 1 ½ years and have been married for about 3 ½ years.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
I don’t have kids. My husband has 3 from his prior marriage.
Two are married and the third is in a serious relationship. They all live within 50-60 miles of us. There is one grandchild and another on the way.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
We live in a major city in Texas in an urban area, in a gated community.
My office is about a 15 minute drive and my husband’s is about 30 minutes.
What is your current net worth?
As of today, around $11.6 million.
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
Assets:
- Stocks: $3.6MM (Large, Mid and Small Cap Funds, ETFs, etc.)
- Bonds $1.55MM (U.S. Investment-Grade Bonds, U.S. High-yield Bonds
- Retirement Account: $2.4MM (Large, Mid and Small Cap Funds, ETFs, etc.)
- Savings Acct for Emergencies: $200,000
- Vacation Condo in Utah: Bought in 2025 for $1.5MM. Paid cash. Utilities are very low and the HOA dues are $990/mo.
- Deferred Compensation: I deferred a large part of my compensation at my prior job for approximately 10 years. There is about a $750,000 balance left which will be paid out to me in different intervals over the next 3-5 years.
- HSA Investment Account: $43,700
- Vested Pension from Current Employer: $915.73/month or $295,848.38 lump sum.
- 401(k) with Current Employer: $190,000
- My husband expects to sell out of his ownership in his company in the next few years and receive approximately $2.5MM.
Debt:
Mortgage on Primary Home: We have a 30 year mortgage which I would love to pay off (I hate debt!) but the interest rate is only 2.375% so financially it makes sense to keep the mortgage.
The current balance is $580K and we pay $2,534/mo. Our home is currently valued at ~$1.1 MM.
EARN
What is your job?
I’m a senior transactional attorney with 33 years’ experience in the Legal Department of a major oil and gas company.
My husband is a partner in a small engineering firm.
What is your annual income?
My compensation from my current job is approximately $400,000/year.
As mentioned above, I also receive deferred compensation from my prior job which rolls in at different times/frequencies since I didn’t do a great job of organizing the payouts.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
I’m somewhat atypical for an attorney in that I have always worked in-house rather than at a law firm. Between my second and third years of law school, I clerked at a firm and quickly realized that working there would likely mean being “on call” all the time.
Because of that experience, I decided to pursue an in-house career path. While the pay is often lower, the workload is generally more manageable.
My first position as an attorney was in the Legal Department of a major bank in Frankfurt, Germany. I provided legal support to the trading floor and earned about $50,000 in my first year.
I kept my U.S. bank account, and since employees could obtain travelers checks for free, each month I mailed about $2,000 in travelers checks to my grandmother in the United States. She would endorse and deposit them into my checking account.
From there, I invested the money in no-load or low-load mutual funds that I read about in Kiplinger’s magazine. Vanguard funds were a favorite at the time, as was the Oakmark Fund.
I stayed disciplined and followed this strategy throughout the six years I lived abroad.
In 1998, I moved back to the United States to work for a major energy company, and I have worked for various companies in that industry ever since. During that time, I have consistently contributed the maximum allowable amount to my 401(k) while living well within my means.
As I began working for large corporations in the U.S., I decided that attending annual shareholder meetings and employee town halls was largely a waste of time. In my experience, executives often use these forums to present the company in the best possible light, and discussions of future plans can change quickly.
Over the years, I have also received company stock and stock options as retention incentives. I typically sell these as soon as they vest, since I already have significant financial exposure to the company through my salary and subsidized health insurance.
The company before the one that I’m currently working for was the most lucrative by far. I was there for 10 years, promoted several times and the remuneration as an “executive” was astonishing.
One year, my total compensation was about $750,000 but I did work very long hours and traveled a lot for work. At my salary grade, each year I was allowed to defer up to 50% of my base salary and up to 100% of my bonus (usually $100,000 to $150,000/year) so I would always defer the maximum of both.
I heard a saying along time ago “A turtle grows to fit its box” which has always stuck with me. Because the deferred money was never part of my day-to-day cash flow, I never really “saw” it.
I lived comfortably on what I think of as my “turtle box”—50% of my base salary—while paying all of my expenses in full each month.
As a result, I rarely had to draw from my post-tax savings. During this period, I bought my first house for $395,000 in cash and sold it nineteen years later for $675,000.
I have been laid off twice in my career as part of major corporate layoffs—once in 2004 and again in 2022. In both cases, there were clear signs that layoffs were approaching, so I was proactive about searching for another position.
In the 2004 situation, I was laid off on a Friday and received a severance package equal to one year’s salary. In addition, all of my unvested company stock immediately vested, so the layoff turned out to be something of a financial windfall.
I booked a last-minute trip to the Caribbean to celebrate, and the following week I began a new job that paid even more than the previous one. Aside from the Caribbean trip, which probably cost about $5,000, I invested my entire severance package.
The layoff from my prior employer was somewhat similar, although I hadn’t expected to be involuntarily terminated. My termination immediately triggered the payout of my deferred compensation plan.
When making my annual deferral elections over the years, I had to choose how and when the future payouts would occur—for example, annually, quarterly, in a lump sum, or in installments—based on my eventual separation date, whether voluntary or involuntary.
Unfortunately, each year I selected a somewhat random assortment of payout options. As a result, my deferred compensation is now being distributed at irregular intervals.
It is also not ideal to be receiving these payments while I am still working full time, but I didn’t want to retire in 2022. I was able to push a few of the larger payments further into the future, but in hindsight I wish I had taken a more consistent approach when making my elections.
Like my earlier layoff, the 2022 termination resulted in a substantial payout. I received approximately one year’s worth of total compensation, including base salary, bonus, accelerated vesting of stock, pension benefits, and other compensation plans that I had not fully realized were due to me.
In total, the payout amounted to roughly $750,000.
My prior employer handled the layoff process somewhat haphazardly, and since there was no one available to assume my responsibilities, I was informed in October 2022 that I would be laid off but was expected to continue working until December 31 in order to receive my severance package.
This gave me plenty of time to search for a new position, network, have lunch with colleagues and plan my next steps.
As before, I invested the entire severance package. I also took a short trip, this time to Europe by myself, before beginning work with my current employer in February 2023.
Realistically, I probably no longer need to work, but I’m used to it and generally enjoy the intellectual stimulation and daily problem solving.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
If you do nothing else financially, make sure you max out your 401(k) every year and take full advantage of whatever company matching is available. I also recommend contributing the maximum allowed to a Health Savings Account (HSA) and participating in any incentives your employer offers related to health insurance subsidies. And of course, it helps to stay in-network whenever possible for health care.
I also think that you generally need to change jobs every so often to really get a decent bump in salary. Networking is critical. In my experience, the people who tend to succeed in the workplace are those who are likeable and who work well with others.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
Honestly, it is the best it has ever been. My current employer allows us to work remotely two days a week, which I take full advantage of, and I have a very short commute on the other three days.
I receive about seven weeks of vacation annually, which I sometimes struggle to use up. It is also very rare for me to work nights or weekends.
Although I was disappointed to be laid off from my prior company in 2022, my current role provides a much better work-life balance. Previously, I was essentially on call 24/7.
I worked during nearly every vacation because I had no backup. I was only work calls while riding up a ski lift.
My boss was a self-centered and arrogant political operator who I definitely don’t miss.
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
In 2013, I bought a three-bedroom beachfront vacation condo for $425,000 as a way to diversify my investment portfolio. It’s about an about an 8 hour drive away from my home.
My real estate agent suggested that I consider renting it out as a short-term rental. At the time, I remember wondering who would ever want to stay there, but I decided to give it a try.
I hired a local property management company to handle the rentals. They did a mediocre job and charged a 22% commission, so I eventually fired them and began managing the property myself.
I created a listing on VRBO, had professional photos taken, set up a Facebook page, and retained a variety of different cleaning services over the years.
Managing the property turned out to be a lot to handle while also working full time as a corporate attorney—especially when Hurricane Sally hit and the condo sustained major damage. Still, the unit remained rented about 80% of the time which I was really proud of.
Overall, it more than paid for itself although dealing with guest issues and sudden maintenance problems could be extremely nerve wracking and time-consuming.
Given those challenges, the 8 hour drive and fact that my current husband does not particularly enjoy going to the beach, I made the difficult decision to sell the condo in February of this year. I originally purchased it for $425,000 and sold it for $900,000.
I know that I will owe capital gains tax and for various reasons I chose not to pursue a 1031 exchange. As usual, the sale proceeds are being invested prudently.
I haven’t bought anything special for myself as a result of the sale which my husband thinks is odd!
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
Probably around $250,000 which I am not crazy about.
My husband is a spender and I am a saver!
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending breaks into?
Eating Out: My husband really enjoys eating out at nice places on the weekends so we do that. (I take my lunch to work on the 3 days that I’m in the office and eat at home the other two days.) We probably spend about $12,000/year in restaurants. Ouch!
Travel: We take several 10 day vacations to Europe each year and travel in business class (he refuses to travel long distance in Economy anymore). I like to stay in really nice hotels. Thus, we probably spend $40,000/year on travel.
House Upgrades/Upkeep: Each year, we seem to take on at least one major home project. Recent examples include replacing the flooring ($35,000), installing a generator ($16,000), replacing the evaporator coil ($4,100) and furnace ($12,000), resurfacing the back patio ($3,000), and installing a fire pit on the patio ($5,000).
We have also converted the chlorine pool to a saltwater system ($3,400), installed a new pool pump ($4,000), and replaced the back fence after the old one began rotting away ($5,300).
There always seems to be another project waiting.
HOA Dues: Our HOA dues at our primary home are $4,000/year and $12,000/year at our vacation place.
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
Not really. Our combined net take home pay is about $26,000/month so we very easily live within that and invest what’s left over.
We pay our credit cards in full each month. I cannot recall the last time that I’ve paid interest on anything besides the mortgage.
We have an informal agreement that if either of us wants to spend over $300 on something, we let the other person know.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
We probably save about half of it but I don’t really keep up with this.
What’s your best tip for saving (accumulating) money?
- “A turtle grows to fit its box,” so try hard not to enlarge your box. If you receive a raise, pretend that you didn’t and divert the increase directly to savings.
- Control the “I wants” and avoid impulse purchases or status consumption. Take time to deliberate before making a large purchase.
- If you stop thinking about it after a while, you probably didn’t really want it in the first place. If nothing else, invest in a mutual fund that tracks the S&P 500. It’s a no-brainer.
- Max out your 401(k) and take full advantage of any employer matching.
- Take advantage of opportunities that come your way and be decisive. Dillydallying is a dangerous strategy.
I don’t do this to save money but I don’t watch television. We don’t have cable, Netflix, etc..
What’s your best tip for spending less money?
- Control the “I wants” mentioned above.
- Try to remember that accumulating more “stuff” is rarely a recipe for happiness.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
I love staying in beautiful hotels and have been fortunate to visit places such as the Plaza Athénée in Paris, The Chedi in Andermatt, Switzerland, Amankila in Bali and the Park Hyatt in Vienna.
I also enjoy unusual travel experiences. Last year, we took a ten-day trip to the Arctic in 3 Scandinavian countries to see the Northern Lights, which was fantastic.
I have also done five different cycling trips with my sister to places such as Italy, France, Vermont and once took a six-week trip around the world by myself.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
I invest prudently within my risk tolerance, diversify and don’t touch my savings.
I also try hard not to think about my investments or get bummed out when the market is volatile.
What has been your best investment?
Probably those Vanguard funds that I religiously invested in back in my 20’s.
I also take very good care of my health, eating well and getting daily exercise.
What has been your worst investment?
My prior marriage started out great but it turned out that he suffered from severe depression and could not hold down a job. Then he flatly refused to get a job of any kind.
It was a stressful expensive time and we divorced in 2021 during COVID. It was also around the time that my beach condo sustained major damage from Hurricane Sally which cratered my rental business for some months.
What’s been your overall return?
20%? I truly have no idea.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
Not that often now that I have a financial advisor. Back in 2022 when I got laid off, the amount of severance coming to me in a variety of forms was overwhelming, not to mention getting my arms around deferred compensation rolling in and looking for another job.
I hired a financial advisor and have been very happy with his advice.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
I would say that saving and investing consistently have been my two best strategies. I came from a very affluent background and could have had almost anything I wanted, but I also valued being independent.
When I decided to move to Germany, I knew the decision would not be well received by my parents. As expected, when I told them, they immediately cut me off financially.
However, I had anticipated that reaction and had already saved enough money to support myself, so it did not bother me. Honestly, I saw it as an interesting challenge.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
Disciplined saving at an early age allows you to harness the power of watching your money grow.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
I don’t recall any major setbacks. In hindsight, the 2 layoffs were an absolute financial boon.
I did well in school, found solid jobs, moved around as needed and avoided wasting money on unnecessary things.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
I meet regularly with my financial advisor and generally follow his advice. I also avoid making major purchases simply to “keep up with the Joneses.”
For example, my car is seven years old, and I have no plans to replace it anytime soon. In short, I try very hard to minimize the “I wants.”
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
No.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
I guess around 32 but I am not sure.
No, I’m pretty much the same as I have always been disciplined, focused and a saver living within my means.
What personal habits and/or traits have you developed that have made you successful at growing your net worth?
Besides being a disciplined saver, I like nice things but I rarely blow money on things. Having too my stuff actually makes me feel anxious.
I donate a lot to charity and also give stuff to my stepdaughters. At this point in my life, I value experiences over stuff.
Another trait I’ve tried to cultivate in myself is to seize opportunities when they arise. I am very decisive and can quickly make an informed decision.
Dithering is a dead end. Also comparing yourself to others is such a waste of time and I really try to avoid social media and political discussions.
I don’t like mental clutter or chaos.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
I would have insisted on a prenup with my first husband.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
Be a disciplined saver. Live well below your income and invest the rest.
Protect the downside financially but explore the upside in life through experiential travel. Try to avoid chasing the accumulation of status symbols or whatever “luxury lifestyle” du jour is being touted on Instagram.
FUTURE
What are your plans for the future regarding lifestyle?
My financial advisor says that I could retire now, but after developing this mindset over so many years, I’m not sure that I quite believe him. He tells me that my self-discipline is very rare but to me, it’s just how I am.
For now, I plan to spend more time at our place in Utah with my husband and friends and hopefully travel abroad a few times each year.
What are your retirement plans?
I love animals and have volunteered at the local animal shelter over the years. However, that leads to me feeling sorry for the poor animals that I end up fostering them which has been stressful at times.
As for financially, I guess I will keep living within my means!
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
Not really.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it “click”?
When I decided to move to Germany and was cut off financially, I resolved to rise to the challenge and not depend on others for financial support.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
My best friend’s parents were very inspirational to me. Her mother was loving and incredibly kind, and she treated me almost like one of her own.
She was also very frugal—she would even wash aluminum foil to reuse it, despite the fact that they were multimillionaires.
Her father was a respected and very astute businessman who often talked with me about investing, particularly in Berkshire Hathaway. He wrote to his children regularly with financial advice and when I heard about this, I asked to read his letters so he sent them to me too.
Do you have any favorite money books you like/recommend? If so, can you share with us your top three and why you like them?
Kiplinger’s Personal Finance magazine and the book Your Money or Your Life were both influential to me. They are written in a clear, easy-to-understand style and aren’t filled with financial jargon.
I always felt that if I could put at least one tip from Kiplinger’s into practice each month, I would be doing just fine.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percentage of time/money do you give?
Yes, definitely. I set up a Donor Advised Fund a few years ago and donate through that.
I also take advantage of company matching and donate that too. I also give money to a donkey sanctuary and an animal charity that rescues farm animals.
I probably donate about $25,000/yr. Needless to say, I am largely a vegetarian.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
I don’t have any children. I have a will that will comfortably provide for my husband if I predecease him.
(My two brothers would blow my money on nonsense and my sister has comfortable existence and doesn’t need money.) Thus, the rest my assets will go to a specific list of animal charities that I care about.
Leave a Reply