Here’s our latest interview with a millionaire as we seek to learn from those who have grown their wealth to high heights.
If you’d like to be considered for an interview, drop me a note and we can chat about specifics.
My questions are in bold italics and his responses follow in black.
Let’s get started…
OVERVIEW
How old are you (and spouse if applicable, plus how long you’ve been married)?
I’m 62 and my wife is 61 we have been married for 37 years.
I am a very lucky man to have found the right woman at such a young age.
We started dating our senior year of HS.
Do you have kids/family (if so, how old are they)?
We have two children both single.
My daughter is 31 and my son is 27.
They are both college grads without student debt, living on their own in NJ and both work in NYC.
They earn good salaries and appease me by contributing to their 401K and have since day 1.
What area of the country do you live in (and urban or rural)?
We live in a rural setting in western NJ but grew up in Jersey City a very urban area.
We also own a home at the Jersey shore purchased 5 years ago.
What is your current net worth?
$3.8M
What are the main assets that make up your net worth (stocks, real estate, business, home, retirement accounts, etc.) and any debt that offsets part of these?
- 401K = $1.2M
- Roth = $160K
- Lump Sum Pension value = $955K
- After Tax Brokerage Account = $750K
- Equity in principle residence and beach house = approx. $800K
This is all net value after deducting mortgages of $600K combined.
No other debt. I have never paid a dime in credit card interest. If I couldn’t pay for it when the bill came due I would not have bought it.
My investment philosophy has been primarily individual stocks. Of the $3.8M the breakout is as follows:
- $1.3M – individual stocks (50% of the 401K and 100% of the Brokerage acct)
- Pension – is administered by my employer I have no access to the lump sum until I retire.
- $625K of the 401K is in cash
EARN
What is your job?
I’m a Sales Director working for a Fortune 500 Telecom company.
I’m responsible for protecting and growing a $20M annual outsourcing relationship with a global manufacturing firm. In English, we manage their IT infrastructure.
I collaborate with a cross functional team to insure all service levels are achieved and we strategically align the client with emerging technology.
What is your annual income?
It’s a combination of base / sales compensation / bonus performance shares / company pension contribution / 401K match/ = $160K base / $70K comp / $30K Bonus shares / $50K pension contribution / $12K – 401K match = approx. $320K annually.
This can vary by 15% in a given year.
Tell us about your income performance over time. What was the starting salary of your first job, how did it grow from there (and what you did to make it grow), and where are you now?
My first job out of college in 1978 was with MetLife as a sales rep. I made $12,500 my first year.
I would say this experience changed my life. I had no knowledge or exposure to personal finance and investments prior. I stayed for 2.5 years and thoroughly enjoyed the people I worked for but burned out from full-time cold calling in NYC.
I went to work for my current employer and fulfilled several roles before leaving after 19 years to join a software firm in 2000.
In 2002 my former employer recruited me back to the fold and I have been here since.
Through my first tenure of 19 years I fulfilled several roles in sales administration, project management, account executive, and finally account manager before leaving.
My salary rose from $24,500 initially to roughly $150,000 when I left for the software company.
I was recruited by the SW company who was my client at the time. After two years I negotiated a significant increase to return to Telcom.
Since 2002 I have averaged between $250K and $330K per year.
I’m not a job hopper but I would never have made the progress I have if I hadn’t moved. It can be scary when raising a family on a single salary but well worth the risk if you do your homework.
What tips do you have for others who want to grow their career-related income?
Understand from the very beginning if you’re going to be an employee you already have a side hustle. You’re the CEO of your future.
Be smart with your money regardless of how little you start with always save something, pay yourself first.
Educate yourself about investing — there are no excuses — everything you need to be financially successfully is readily available in the FREE public library all you must do is apply yourself. I’m not at all opposed to higher education, but much can be accomplished without the astronomical cost of an MBA. [Editor’s note: The Personal MBA: Master the Art of Business
is a GREAT book if you’d prefer to learn business for $10 or so instead of $100k.]
The same for your position at work. Whether it’s your life’s passion or not, dig in. Learn what you don’t know or understand. Don’t be afraid to ask for help from those more experienced and accomplished in your firm.
Don’t live your life in your head, engage people and you’ll be surprised how willing some are to help. Don’t be discouraged because one or two turn out to be crank pots.
Read, research, expand your knowledge about your field and business in general. Learn what separates great companies from the rest.
With time and experience build a game plan for how your skills can be put to work in emerging opportunities. Things are always changing, competition drives the best in all of us. In time you will find your niche.
Don’t be afraid to take a chance. Setbacks are normal you only fail at something if you give up.
Believe me this wasn’t some master plan that came to me in the middle of the night. I muddled through most of the time but kept grinding, pushing myself suffering setbacks and frustrations along the way. I just wouldn’t give up and kept at it and over time figured things out.
I’m sure smarter people would have done so sooner but I did the best I could.
I think that’s really the key to sustained growth…keep pushing yourself, expect setbacks, figure it out, and move forward. Nothing goes straight up, life can be humbling, never give up.
What’s your work-life balance look like?
My wife and I agreed early on that once we started a family she would stop working and become a full-time mom because we were very committed to raising our children ourselves.
My wife worked, and we banked her salary for seven years before starting our family. That amounted to $40,000 and helped us buy our first home.
It’s a little old-fashioned I know but it worked for us.
Certainly, we gave up a lot of income over the years, but we could not have made a better decision by investing in our family. Having one paycheck was never that difficult because we had been banking my wife’s salary all along.
We were both from very humble beginnings, so we didn’t have ideas of grandeur, nor were we ever motivated to impress anyone. We have always been comfortable in our own skin.
What we couldn’t afford we did without.
Being the sole source of income increased my awareness that I had to succeed on the job and invested whatever was needed to do so.
On the other hand, I rarely ever missed my kids school events, games, or other activities. I also coached both my kid’s basketball teams for years.
There were times of high stress but for the most part we functioned as a team and made the necessary sacrifices.
I’m happy to report while not perfect I’m extremely proud of both our kids who are level-headed, caring, responsible young adults. I think our experiment turned out ok.
I once heard a Jackie Kennedy saying I never forgot “if you screw up your kids nothing much else matters”. I took that to heart, family has always been priority one!
Do you have any sources of income besides your career? If so, can you list them, give us a feel for how much you earn with each, and offer some insight into how you developed them?
I don’t have a side hustle other than always thinking of myself as the CEO of our family.
The management of our savings / investments was of paramount importance to our future and keeping the shareholders (wife + kids) happy was my mission.
Once I was exposed to the world of investing in my MetLife training I was rabid. My hunger to learn everything I could was insatiable.
I have probably read between 200-300 books on investing over the last 40 years.
As a DYI investor I’ve made my share of mistakes but overall, I’ve done well enough to completely replace my income with the annual return on our nest egg.
Trust me when I tell you, if I can do this anyone can. I’m not some high IQ individual, I certainly didn’t come from money. I didn’t have a rich grandpa or mentor. I didn’t invent some spectacular product the world can’t live without.
I’m a regular guy who grew up with nothing materially, but caring parents.
I was never a corporate executive, quite the contrary a hardworking middle manager at best.
I learned on the job, applied myself and managed our money as best I could. This is less about IQ than it is about discipline, decision making, focusing on the big picture.
The drive to succeed, to be financially independent, to insulate myself from the layoffs and the politics of corporate life was all the motivation I needed.
SAVE
What is your annual spending?
All in $136,000.
$100,000 covers all our expenses and $36,000 is budgeted for spending.
What are the main categories (expenses) this spending break into?
It covers everything:
- mortgages
- real estate taxes
- homeowner’s insurance
- flood insurance
- utilities
- cellphone
- cable
- auto expenses
- auto insurance
- health insurance
- food
- garbage collection
- lawn maintenance
- Misc. expenses (tax prep, house repair, gym membership, etc.)
Do you have a budget? If so, how do you implement it?
I do the budgeting.
It’s more of an annual assessment to insure we have stayed within the guidelines we established for each expense. We don’t watch it like a hawk every month.
Rather each year end I tally all the expenses from our checking statements, electronic payments, credit card, etc.
I tally the expenditure for each category and figure out what the actuals were vs. budgeted amounts.
Again, we don’t have an extravagant lifestyle. I make more than we need so this isn’t that big of a deal for us. We aren’t conspicuous consumers.
On the other hand, we aren’t eating dog food either. We have always lived well and enjoyed our lives without needing a BMW or Mansion to feel good.
What percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
15% roughly $40K a year.
$31K goes to the 401K / $4K to the Roth / $5K to the HSA account.
We often don’t spend the entire $36K allocated for spending.
With the beach house we wind up traveling a little less. That will change once I retire.
This is only my contribution — the company is throwing $50K a year into my pension and I’m collecting $12K per year in 401k matching.
So, all in it’s a little over $100K per year.
When we were younger raising a family on one paycheck I was only saving 5%.
When the kids were in college it was down to 10% but I was making a lot more by then.
Point is that income and expenses have fluctuated over time, but we always paid ourselves first. If something had to be cut it was something else that got reduced or eliminated. Always pay yourself first.
What is your favorite thing to spend money on/your secret splurge?
Buying the beach house was something we always dreamed of and never thought we would be able to afford.
We always went to the beach for a week every summer and rented for 20 years.
We all love the beach. My kids are 4 years apart in age, so I never had two in college at the same time. After 8 years of paying for college, taking on a second home wasn’t as expensive, and it came with some tax deductions. The first couple of years we rented it quite a bit which also helped.
INVEST
What is your investment philosophy/plan?
I’ve refined my plan over the years.
I mostly focus on individual stocks.
I research the fundamentals and assess long-term annual stock price performance.
I don’t diversify — I concentrate my resources into 5-6 stocks.
I don’t trade often but I don’t buy / hold either.
When holdings run up I sell and reallocate into quality stocks that have temporarily fallen out of favor.
When the market corrects I don’t have a problem sitting in cash and awaiting a bottom before making incremental purchases in targeted equities.
I don’t believe in 50% bonds / 50% indexes as I approach retirement.
I enjoy managing my resources and plan to continue doing so for a long time God willing. My goal is substantially growing my nest egg over the next 20 years.
What has been your best investment?
I have bought and sold a lot of stocks over the years but recently decided to allocate a % of money to long-term holds.
This is very different for me, I think with time I’m beginning to mature a bit.
I bought 6000 shares of Microsoft in Oct of 2017 and have managed to hold on through several short-term pullbacks. I’m up 33% or close to $240K.
I have also traded FB six times in the last several years and have made over $300K but never held it, purely short-term transactions. It was all in my 401K so no tax consequences for being impatient.
I’m coming to realize short-term pullbacks are not a reason to sell a long-term performer.
FB was purely a quarterly earnings play. It would run up just before the announcement and after another great report would fly even higher. I never felt comfortable holding all that gain so I would sell my position. 30 days before the next quarterly I’d begin buying if it began moving up. It recently stopped doing so and I haven’t been back.
What has been your worst investment?
Well I could go on, but the worst was an Oil and Gas partnership investment back in the late 80’s.
It cost me $15K at a time when I didn’t have that much money, so it really hurt.
But I learned several very important lessons:
- Don’t ever buy anything you don’t fully understand
- Never buy something for tax benefits
- Always understand what the guy selling the investment is going to make on the sale
What’s been your overall return?
14.5%.
I track my holdings and trades in a spreadsheet every month.
How often do you monitor/review your portfolio?
Daily. Again I’m fascinated by this stuff, so it isn’t a burden to me. I love the market. All my content is on my cell phone so it’s easy. I like to have a feel for the market.
NET WORTH
How did you accumulate your net worth?
- We’ve always lived below our means.
- For the first seven years we were married and both working we banked my wife’s salary. We didn’t make very much but we always saved.
- Once the emergency fund was in place, I invested in the company savings plan and received matching funds. This was before there were 401Ks
- Over time as my income started to rise and my learning kicked in I began investing in a wide variety of vehicles always trying to find the fastest path through the forest.
- Over time I refined my approach. Really took the time to research and understand the S&P 500 market performance year in and year out since 1929. There’s a lot to learn from 89 years of historical performance.
- When you begin to understand the incredible performance of the market and then further refine your search to identify the truly amazing individual contributors to that long-term success the light goes on.
- We inherited nothing monetarily, but I benefitted from my father’s incredible work ethic. He was tough on me but in retrospect I have benefited from his intentions.
- We have earned, saved, and invested our way to financial independence.
- Anyone can.
- My earnings were modest early on. I earned a few promotions along the way, but I never made more than a good living. I’m not Bill Gates but one doesn’t have to be to achieve success and independence.
- The entire picture that you need 10 cars and 5 mansions and $50M is ridiculous.
- Balance in life is key.
What would you say is your greatest strength in the ESI wealth-building model (Earn, Save, or Invest) and why would you say it’s tops?
Save.
If you always live below your means regardless of how little you earn you will always have a cushion to fall back on.
If you don’t make much you don’t need much to feel a sense of accomplishment.
Over time as your earnings grow and you begin educating yourself about investing the numbers will come.
If you don’t save it doesn’t matter how much you make or how brilliant an investor you could’ve been if you have no resources. To save is to sacrifice today for tomorrow. Saving is the beginning of it all.
What road bumps did you face along the way to becoming a millionaire and how did you handle them?
I never really thought about it as becoming a millionaire. I always thought about it as gaining my freedom, my independence.
When you first begin “working for a living” you really are beholding to others. Specifically, your employers.
In time if you’re applying the ESI principles the leverage begins to shift.
With resources you have options, with options you have negotiating leverage.
As your income, savings, and investing capabilities continue to compound you sense the power of your potential. What once seemed like a pipe dream is well within reach. You are no longer “working for a living” you’ve graduated to “making money”. There is a very big difference between the two.
Starting with nothing was the bump. Getting turned on to investments and the whole concept of having your money “make money” was all the inspiration I needed.
What are you currently doing to maintain/grow your net worth?
Continuing to earn, save, and invest.
I’m still reading and building my knowledge base.
I might leave my employer in the next month, year or two. But I’ll always manage my resources to ensure they are creating enough yield to live comfortably and still have plenty left over to compound the nest egg.
Do you have a target net worth you are trying to attain?
If I net 9% after all living / spending expenses over the next 20 years I would target $20M as a goal.
Once I retire with social security I’ll only need about a 2% drawdown to live so 9% isn’t crazy although no one knows for sure what the future holds.
When RMTs kick in I’ll be drawing a higher % but that’s 8 years away.
How old were you when you made your first million and have you had any significant behavior shifts since then?
Can’t honestly say but there have been no behavioral shifts at all. I guess I’m just a grinder at heart.
What money mistakes have you made along the way that others can learn from?
As I mentioned I have made many mistakes along the way.
One more recent brain fart was trading options and having some immediate success. I got drunk on my early success and cocky.
I quickly found out why options are priced so seductively $125,000 later.
If things seem too good to be true, take another look and just for safe keeping, take a third look. All that glitters are not gold!
Stay away from trading options — they are suckers bet and the statistics regarding the % of options expiring worthless backup my claim.
What advice do you have for ESI Money readers on how to become wealthy?
I worry about the nonsense being feed young people 7 x 24.
Don’t believe all the propaganda being disseminated by the media who would have you believe the game is rigged, only the 1% win. Capitalism is dead, socialism is the way forward. It’s not your fault, you’re a victim, you can’t do this on your own, on and on and on. This is pure unadulterated poppycock.
I came from nothing, knew nothing, had no advantages, and yet I have achieved financial independence.
This entire pity party is nonsense.
Work hard, apply yourself, ESI, and you too can achieve whatever you put your mind to.
This is the greatest country in the world for just that very reason. The only limiting factor is you determining…are you a victim or are you going to be your own hero?
FUTURE
What are your plans regarding lifestyle?
I’m no spring chicken so early retirement is long gone for me, but I can retire anytime I want.
I still enjoy my work but have seriously been thinking about my second act.
I want to write a book about my journey.
I’d like to start a program to teach young people about the power of investing, the facts about the historical performance of the market, and how liberating participation can be.
The stock market is a great equalizer — it doesn’t care if the money is coming from men or women or white or black or catholic or muslim or gay or straight, rich, or poor. Invest in the right stocks and you make money. Conversely if you invest in the wrong stocks you will lose. It is indiscriminate about whose money it is.
What are your retirement plans?
Write, develop an educational investment program, continue to manage our resources, travel, family time, enjoy the beach, continue exercising, and enjoy the splendor of being alive another day.
Are there any issues in retirement that concern you? If so, how are you planning to address them?
No. One never knows for sure what life has in store, but I have no concerns.
MISCELLANEOUS
How did you learn about finances and at what age did it ‘click’? Was it from family, books, forced to learn as wealth grew, etc.?
As I mentioned earlier I got turned on to investing as part of my training in my first real job at MetLife at age 22.
From then on it has been all self-learning by reading and attempting to apply my new knowledge.
While I wandered around in the forest for a long time trying everything I read about with lots of good and bad results, I have really refined my approach into a rigorous strategy the last 10 years.
Who inspired you to excel in life? Who are your heroes?
My father.
He taught me many things in life through his actions more than his words.
He wasn’t formally educated but he was one of the smartest people I have ever met.
He had an incredible work ethic and sense of responsibility.
When there was no work he didn’t march in the street demanding a higher wage, he took whatever he could get and worked as many part time jobs as was needed to care for his family.
He was a war hero and purple heart recipient but never talked about it. I learned of his exploits from a friend of his. He spent two years in military hospitals and underwent two dozen surgeries but never spoke of it nor the lingering pain from his wounds.
He taught me what was important in life and it had nothing to do with how much or how little money someone had. It had everything to do with how you conducted yourself and treated others. My father is my hero.
Do you give to charity? Why or why not? If you do, what percent of time/money do you give?
I do. I give to my church and two causes I feel strongly about: our Vets and St. Jude’s.
I have been very fortunate in my life. I know others have had a much tougher road to hoe.
I think it’s important to share one’s good fortune with others.
I will likely increase my contribution of time and talent once I retire.
Giving is a lot like exercising — the more you do, the better you feel.
Do you plan to leave an inheritance for your heirs (how do you plan to distribute your wealth at your death)? What are your reasons behind this plan?
This is tricky stuff. Striking the right balance is critically important.
I want to help my children as they make their way in life, but I don’t want to cause unintended negative consequences.
I also want to leave an inheritance in a trust so there can be a generational source of income for grandchildren and great grandchildren.
I want to assist future generations to achieve their full potential.
Percentage of your gross income do you save and how has that changed over time?
15% roughly $40K a year.
$31K goes to the 401K / $4K to the Roth / $5K to the HSA account.
Can you explain the logic behind your “401K / Roth / HSA account” allocation?
Thanks,
Paul L
callcentertiger at gmail com.
Sure the allocation is simple max out the 401k / and HSA is targeted for what my wife and I spend on medical each year roughly. The Roth is just excess savings so it varies year to year
Your quote about “being the CEO” of your own future ——. Love this and practiced this all my working life.
See below —-
“Understand from the very beginning if you’re going to be an employee you already have a side hustle. You’re the CEO of your future.”
I’m 64 and my wife is 61 —- this June, we will celebrate 40 years of togetherness—— our NW and our story is similar to yours. Although we are both still working, we see the light at the end of the tunnel —- 20 more months and we’re out.
My wife works in public education and I retired from public education after 30 + years —— so, you’re right, if we can do this, anyone can.
ESI —-
Earn
Save
Invest
Sure wish I would’ve understood this simple formula earlier ——
Razorback
Couldn’t agree more regarding anyone can accomplish this goal if they are willing to invest in themselves. I’m happy to hear of your pending “independence day”congratulations and continued success. You and your wife should be very proud. It’s really unfortunate how few people achieve this goal. We really need to upgrade our educational system.
Amen to education needing to be upgraded ——- sooner, than later!!!
As a former teacher, principal (all levels) and a superintendent of schools, something must be done…….
Honestly, after 30 years of fighting the good fight, I’m not sure how to tackle this problem —— too much poverty, funding issues, way too many “helicopter parents” and too much misunderstanding on key issues at the state level (do the state leaders really understand all that’s going on in our schools) —– oh, and lastly, the school house was built for children….. sometimes, I fear this has been forgotten. Leaders should (many do) keep the laser-focus on advocating for children ———if not them; who will?
Hi MJW,
You mention you bought and sold a lot of stocks over the years and read 200-300 books over your years. Which individual stock investing books do you think are the best?
Wow there so many but a few of my favorites Stocks for the long run. A random walk. Stock market wizards. Concentrated Investing. Contrarian Investment Strategies. The Most Important Thing. How to make money in stocks – William O’Neil.
Wow there are so many but a few of my favorites Stocks for the long run. A random walk. Stock market wizards. Concentrated Investing. Contrarian Investment Strategies. The Most Important Thing. How to make money in stocks – William O’Neil.
Hi MI-126, I really enjoyed your interview, especially because we have similar philosophies about a lot of things. For me personally, I also do not necessarily believe in dropping the percentage of equities as one ages. I am almost 62 and we still have about 84% of our invested assets in equities. What I have done is look at my passive income streams and only invest conservatively in areas that need to support those to cover future expenses in retirement. My wife and I both have decent pensions and coupling those with future SS payments will pretty much cover our living expenses in retirement. After that, I will probably do some Roth conversions to cut down on future RMD tax implications and then the rest of the portfolio can continue to grow long-term with the hope of providing generational wealth for our daughter and her future family.
Like you, I have been self-made and self-taught and absorbed mistakes along the way but still have come to this point in great financial shape. As you mentioned, it didn’t take above average intelligence to succeed, just good common sense, discipline and a long enough time horizon to achieve the magical results of compounding. I also like that you have not deprived yourself of enjoying life just to increase your NW. You spend within reason without adopting a frugal lifestyle which is pretty much where my wife and I have been as well. FI was always the goal but RE never entered our minds. We both have enjoyed our careers and plan to step away on our terms when the time is right and not based on someone else’s clock. And if someone else does force our hand, we are financially prepared to deal with it.
Thanks again for your interview and best of luck as you approach retirement!
Happy to see that there are other non-conformists out there who do not drop their equity exposure with age. Am 64, have always had nearly 100% of investable assets in stocks, and continue to do so to this day. Has worked for over 40 years! Am also rolling my taxable assets into a Roth IRA before the age of 70 1/2 in order to avoid RMD’s. Wife and I also each have a pension and, with social security after age 70, will be able to cover our expenses and then some. All self made and self directed. This is not rocket science: earn a reasonable salary, save a big portion of it, and invest it to the max. Hmmmm…. where I have heard that one before???
Amen Charles spread the word!
MI 27
Thanks as timing would have it I pulled the plug the end of March. I agree with you one doesn’t have to starve themselves to achieve this goal. I have found balance in all things lead to a good outcome.
Love this! “Understand from the very beginning if you’re going to be an employee you already have a side hustle. You’re the CEO of your future.” That struck me as a great mantra.
I have a spreadsheet where I track an amount I am depositing from each paycheck into a “special savings” for a goal item. At the top of spreadsheet I have noted, “Pay yourself first every pay day — cause nobody else will!”
Kristy
Now that’s the type of laser focus that will lead to the desired outcome. There is an old saying “ if you aren’t measuring it you can’t improve it”. Tracking your progress will serve several purposes: 1- great source of motivation as you see your plan progressing. 2-the facts / results will reinforce your current strategy or indicate a new approach might be needed. 3 – tracking / documenting your results and adjustments along the way will provide you an invaluable history so you will know exactly how you got to your destination.
As someone who lives in NJ working in Sales in the Technology services industry – Financial Services vertical. This was an interesting read!
-What did you enjoy more and would recommend in terms of stability & income potential?
New Sales or Account Management?
-What’s the most imp. skill needed for Account management in your opinion?
-How have you kept yourself current given the ageism that exists in the technology industry.
-Have you considered seeking a role in Cloud industry -AWS, Microsoft given your experience in infrastructure?
I would happily buy your book on your journey if you ever came out with one!!
FF – great questions. Well the Account Management scope of work for me included new sales. However, that was curtailed to the one global client I was managing. That might sound limiting but we had more than enough opportunities to pursue given our global scope. I enjoyed both responsibilities equally but I have to say the satisfaction of working on highly competitive global multiyear RFP and winning 9 figure contracts was exhilarating.
Most important skill for effective AM = listening skills / the ability to shut off the voice in your head and really listen to what the client is telling is a rare skill that pays off in spades once mastered.
Ageism is overcome by out working your colleagues and the competition…. reading / keeping current/ understanding emerging trends / and being able to translate tech improvements into a financial win for the client is key / energy level is important also….exercise, proper sleep, concentration, I have always felt if you feel good you’ll perform well. Balance in all things
I’m still interested in tech so out of intellectual curiosity I stay somewhat current. Cloud is definitely a major trend with lots of exciting possibilities. I have thought about your suggestion but for now being that I just “retired” I’m going to manage my money, begin work on the book and reassess in a couple of months.
This was a really refreshing read. So many of these seem purely selfish, although I still read them. Hahahahaha. You seem to have a good balance of keeping the main thing the main thing and still give to charity. I will definitely read your book!
“Don’t believe all the propaganda being disseminated by the media who would have you believe the game is rigged, only the 1% win. Capitalism is dead, socialism is the way forward. It’s not your fault, you’re a victim, you can’t do this on your own, on and on and on. This is pure unadulterated poppycock.”
I (32, M, Business Analyst), wish I could get your message in front of every young person (and some not so young people who still have not learned it). Playing the victim is a plague that is infecting my peers and generation as a whole to an uncanny degree. I have made my share of financial mistakes: taking out too large of loans for college/not going to a college more reasonably priced, not saving enough immediately upon getting my first “real job” out of school. However, nobody forced me to sign for those loans and certainly no one forced me to spend my income unwisely for far too long. I do believe many people of my generation could benefit from a personal finance class, whether in school or independent of them. It is mind boggling that something so critical to your success in life is not really a part of any mandatory curriculum. I have been self-taught in my pursuit for financial independence, and have learned a great deal since choosing to pursue this path, but I deeply wish that someone had helped push me towards it much earlier in life.
I just recently found and started reading these interviews and yours has been my favorite to date. Reading about someone “making it” from humble beginnings while openly admitting to not being of genius level intellect is always encouraging and inspiring. Do you have any favorite personal finance books not relating to investing specifically? Do you listen to podcasts or consume personal finance information in any other medium in addition to books?
Thank you for your interview. I will be very interested in your own book once it is completed.
Jimmy,
For personal finance / financial planning I have always found Ric Edelman’s books and podcasts very good. I also like the following podcasts ….Masters in Business / Motley Fool / Mr.Money Mustache (blog).
And thank you for your comments Jimmy this is another topic of propaganda the media tries unsuccessfully to brainwash everyone into thinking is fact ……that is everyone under 35 is a spoiled, irresponsible, entitled, whiner, looking for the government to solve their every need. My experience is your clear headed, responsible approach is much more the case regarding the attitudes I experience with young people. Most are ambitious, willing to work hard, understand nothing goes straight up and most importantly more than happy to take responsibility for their own success vs. this ridiculous notion that the government can provide that for you!
Continued success, your responsible, self empowering, rationale approach will serve you well.
MJW,
Thank you for your reply. I agree completely that not everyone under 35 is as depicted in the media. I have many friends and colleagues who are more closely aligned with your description of your experience with those in our age group. However, if you take the occasional glance at any social media platform it is too easy to see that there are still far too many people who are more than willing to put their ignorance and irresponsibility on display. My fear is that the even younger generations will grow up seeing what is constantly put out into the collective of media and social outlets and view these opinions and propaganda as facts and choose to grow up believing in such nonsense resulting in deeper levels of acting as victims. I am very glad to hear that your experience with young people has been more positive as a whole.
It is also sometimes difficult to remember that there are a great number of individuals out there doing things the right ways. You simply do not hear about them because they are not spending their time on various platforms complaining and playing blame games, and they do not make for good stories or result in high numbers of “clicks” for the outlets. This topic is an important one to me, as since I am identified as a millennial, the way members of my age group act and portray themselves has great consequence on how people of importance, such as potential employers, end up viewing me.
Thank you again for sharing your story and for your book/podcast recommendations. I look forward to digging into each of them.
One of my favorite interviews. I live in Western, NJ too (Califon, Hunterdon County). Perhaps I’ve sat next to him at a bar at some point. Our views on life are pretty close.
Recently, we’ve found out that some rich folks cheated to get their kids into college. This gets turned into how “everything is rigged” and there is no such thing a “meritocracy.” For those of us that came from humble roots and made something for ourselves – we know better. If you work hard, live within your means, save and invest – you can reach FI. I’m not quite there yet, but I am a heck of a lot closer than most.
Congrats Tom,
Isn’t it interesting how those who tell us we need radical change are the ones sitting in DC for decades making a mess out of our national budget. So if we really think about what they are suggesting ….the successful people in this country are the problem, how dare they work hard and make a lot of money, they need to be punished. And the way we fix our budget problems is to “give more” to the hack politicians who have recklessly overspent their way into a multi- trillion dollar deficit. So punish the achievers and reward the incompetents…….we need to eliminate a phrase from the American vocabulary “career politician”. Term limits and real campaign finance reform would go along way to solving this challenge.
Guess I can’t resist adding my two cents here.
First of all, congrats on reaching FIRE M-126 aka MJW. We have a few things in common, which resonated with me. And by the way, I’m glad you included your lump sum pension value in your NW – a lot of folks with nothing much to their name are what I call “pension millionaires”. My mom retired as one of them! It’s a big part of the wealth calculus that doesn’t get discussed much.
My dad was a vet too, though nowhere near as decorated as your dad, and his alcoholism, gambling and other issues made him more like a model of precisely what not to do with my life – an anti-role model of sorts. He left my mom in a rat-infested slum with three small children to care for. My mom is the hero of my story, and much the catalyst for my ambition. I knew I wanted to be wealthy from a very early age.
As you can probably surmise, I too came from humble beginnings – we never went to bed hungry but my early childhood surroundings showed me extreme intergenerational urban and rural poverty up close and personal. I grew up having to dodge bullies and drug dealers on the way to elementary school and I had to disguise the fact that I enjoyed learning or had any goal other than becoming a sports figure some day. I was fortunately, tall for my age (could win schoolyard fights) and reasonably athletic (could gain respect from bullies).
As time went on, my mom’s financial situation gradually recovered and by the time I was in high school our lifestyle had surroundings reached middle class, though always on tenuous footing. Like your father, my mom had an extraordinary work ethic, never much complained about her lot in life, took responsibility for her circumstances, and never played the victim role. There were times when we could have easily qualified for public assistance, but she never took it and did everything she could to avoid it. She was determined that she was not going to be that person. Her willpower was a force of nature.
Another thing we have in common is technology sales and marketing – that was my first post-college job, at one of the biggest tech giants back in the day. The training and discipline that role gave me has been invaluable even as I’ve gone on to other unrelated careers – I seem to shift gears every 8-10 years… Jack of All Trades, Master of Some.
Back then in the day, you had to have a strong liver to do commercial sales – my customers were the back office tech guys and boy could they drink. Of course, as a large account sales rep, I was the one doing the buying. Lucky I did not end up like my dad.
I did end up achieving my wealth goals, to the point now in my mid-50’s, I am FI, though not RE. Maybe RE is just not for me, as I find myself thinking about yet another career shift, but its very nice to have options. So, I have traveled from poverty thru middle class thru upper middle class to whatever you’d call someone with assets within spitting distance of $10mm.
Anyhow, I thought you should know something about me before I make the next couple of (inflammatory) statements. I am now surrounded almost exclusively, save for some old friends and family) by people of wealth and privilege – my neighbors, my clients, my colleagues, some of my relatives thru marriage, etc. Interestingly, just about everyone of them seems to exist under the notion that they are “self-made”, that whatever advantage or head-start they may have gotten is utterly meaningless and had nothing to do with their success, that anyone can do what they did if they quit whining and put their back into it.
Well, I suppose I’m pretty conflicted on this topic. On the one hand, I am proof positive that the American Dream is alive and well, and that class mobility still exists, and that sheer grit and determination can go a long ways towards creating one’s own destiny. But, on the other hand, I can see how things have gone badly for many of the people I left behind that were part of my early life, and I can see quite clearly that opportunity is not equitably distributed.
The circumstances of our birth greatly affect the opportunity set before us. I see how hard the rural and urban poor have struggled against the weight of drug epidemics and off-shoring of decent paying jobs. I see how a culture of dependence and stagnation gets passed down from generation to generation – when people are so steeped in ignorance, they don’t even know the first thing about how to improve their lives. I see how media-driven commerce leeches off of the most vulnerable of our population by appealing to our worst selves and base needs.
I’m not disagreeing with the notion that people should get off their butts and do something with themselves, nor with the notion that government is not always the solution. And I completely agree that punishing the successful simply to appease the bitterness of those left behind is no great solution. And yes, I get angry about being taxed to death. I’m nowhere near a socialist.
BUT, there has to be some rebalancing of the system which has created increasing wealth concentration – I’m not talking about the 7-digit millionaires featured on this blog, I’m talking about the folks with the kind of $$$ that can buy politicians and governments for the purpose of advancing their narrow set of interests. I’m talking about a political machine that does not seem geared to providing us with good choices or truly governing for the people.
If things keep going the way they are, if the working and middle classes continue to be hollowed out, if the vast majority of the population rightly or wrongly perceives that wealth opportunity is really just for a select few winner take all elites, then we are in BIG trouble. And the torches and pitchforks will surely be at our door.
Miguel,
Thanks for sharing your story and your observations. I would say this about opportunity and equal distribution. Life isn’t fair. I believe the best solution is for a government that puts in place policies that rewards saving and investing, personal growth. A robust economy offering full employment is about the best I think we can reasonably shoot for. Unfortunately, some would have us believe punishing success is the answer. Some would suggest they could administer complete equality. Those who offer guarantees in life are lying through their teeth. I’m not suggesting we don’t help the underprivileged, I’m suggesting it’s not the role of government and that they have been an unmitigated failure with every attempted program.
Said differently Miguel my reaction to your approaching 10M was wow that’s impressive good for Miguel his hard work paid off. The hacks in DC would say “you didn’t do that on your own” we need to confiscate your success/money so we can share it equally. I believe Chavez offered the Venezuelans the same utopia. It’s a pipe dream frequently offered never delivered upon.
Congrats and continued success!
Awesome . . . refreshingly interesting perspective and more quotable moments than I can handle.
Good followthrough in the commentary as well, big time. Couldn’t agree more, that the best we can hope for is a ‘robust economy offering full employment . . . ‘ Nevertheless, the general (some would argue intentional) dumbing down of this country and nascent threat of socialism or socialism ‘lite’ is real enough, especially here at the epicenter (millionaires . . . ), at least by their own twisted lights. Bernie could use a red rubber nose and filed teeth at this point, one bad clown full of malicious intent in regard to . . . his own social class! It’s always the other guy’s money, of course. Damn communists . . . one look at our elastic tax code and social engineering over the decades should scare the pants off of anybody. Nevertheless, I don’t play whack-a-mole on Millennials or Gen Z anymore; I’ve developed a sort of latent respect for their different ways, the outcomes of which remain uncertain. Exceptions always abound, but they appear relatively strong at math, averse to risk, so take a naturally dim view toward gambling, late to marriage (if at all) and so on. They certainly didn’t create this world, develop this wildly imbalanced land of opportunity, much less those unforgettable, nightmarish aspects of the Great Recession so many of them were forced to live through, straight out of school into hell. I cut them slack until proven otherwise. Bernie bros clamoring for revolution and socialism, not so much, but I get the appeal. Scary stuff indeed.