Today we continue sharing some parts of the book Die with Zero as well as my thoughts on them.
Last time we covered the introduction and Rule 1 of the book’s nine rules, so if you missed it you should probably read that before proceeding.
As for this post, we’ll get into Rule 2.
Let’s get started…
Rule 2
We’ll begin by stating Rule 2 as follows:
Start investing in experiences early.
What is “early” and why should we invest in experiences at this time?
The author starts his answer to these questions with a bit of a review from the preceding chapter:
The main idea here is that your life is the sum of your experiences. This just means that everything you do in life — all the daily, weekly, monthly, annual, and once-in-a-lifetime experiences you have — adds up to who you are. When you look back on your life, the richness of those experiences will determine your judgment of how full a life you’ve led.
So it stands to reason that you should put some serious thought and effort into planning the kinds of experiences that you want for yourself. Without that kind of deliberate planning, you’re bound to just follow our culture’s well-trodden, default path through life — to coast on autopilot. You’ll get to your destination (death) but probably without having the kind of journey you would have actively chosen for yourself.
That was when I realized that you retire on your memories. When you’re too frail to do much of anything else, you can still look black on the life you’ve lived and experience immense pride, joy, and the bittersweet feeling of nostalgia.
Ok, so I think we have the main points by now:
- Life = Experiences
- The more experiences, the better your life.
- You need to plan for experiences in order to “maximize” them. You simply can’t be on auto-pilot and expect to get the most from whatever you do.
- Experiences not only give you pleasure when you do them, but allow you to reminisce and relive them and enjoy them in years in the future.
FYI, I’m not saying I’m 100% on board with all of this. I’m simply explaining what the author says at this point.
Ok, with that out of the way, he goes back to the story of the ant and the grasshopper as follows:
What I’m saying is that our culture tends to overemphasize the virtues of the ant — of hard work and delayed gratification — at the cost of other virtues. As a result, we fail to appreciate that the grasshopper was onto something, too.
So, yes, the ant would be better off to save a little and, yes, the grasshopper would be better off to live a little! I’m here to bridge the ant and the grasshopper, to help you find the right balance between the two.
In fact, the stated moral of my favorite version of the fable is just this: “There is a time for work and a time for play.”
Several thoughts here:
- Culture might “overemphasize” saving versus spending on experiences, but IMO most Americans don’t live their lives in this way. If anything there’s an overemphasis on spending versus savings in the majority’s lives.
- The author might be better served by arguing for spending on experiences versus spending on things. That’s where I think the real problem is in America. We’re too busy buying the latest iPhone because it’s now in silver instead of gold. If we’d just relax a bit and control spending on phones, TVs, computers, new, fancy cars, etc., we’d have a lot more money to spend on experiences.
- That said, within the FIRE community there is a glorification of saving and a down-the-nose view of spending. Many of us would be better off to lighten up a little on the purse strings as we’re saving for FI. That point is not lost on me and I think it’s a good one worth considering.
- The author says he’s here to offer a balance, but this book is certainly NOT a balance. It’s weighted well to the side of being a grasshopper versus being an ant. Just sayin’. This is yet another example of the author saying one thing and then turning around and saying the opposite (a point I brought up in the last post).
We’re not ready to answer the questions I posed above yet, but we will introduce an interesting concept…
What’s an Experience Worth?
We all know how to calculate net worth and that it’s a measure of wealth, right?
Well what if there was a “net worth of experiences” (instead of money)?
Funny you should ask as that’s what the author suggests next.
His words:
Earlier I said that life is the sum of all experiences. Well, I wasn’t just speaking figuratively: If you were to put a numerical value on each experience, you could then actually add up the value of multiple experiences. Doing that makes it possible to compare bundles of disparate experiences, which is a step toward maximizing your lifetime fulfillment.
How do you place a numerical value on an experience? For starters, think about the enjoyment you get from each experience in terms of points, like the points you’d earn in a game. Peak experiences will bring you many experience points. Small pleasures will get only a few points. How many points you assign to an activity is totally up to you, because everybody’s values and interests are different.
Some people like nothing more than tending their garden, so they would say that every day they spend gardening gets a high number of points. Other people would say you’d have to pay them to prune plants or pull weeds, so for them any time spent gardening would get zero points. (There are no negative points in this system.)
If you take all of your positive experiences from a given year and add up their point values, you get a number (for example, 5,090 points). You can represent this number as a bar on a bar chart. The higher the number, the higher the bar. It’s as simple as that.
You can do the same for every year of your life so far. Some years are better than others, for various reasons, and some of these reasons are out of your control. (If an accident left you confined to a hospital for 12 months, for example, you probably wouldn’t have many enjoyable experiences that year.)
I can be a bit numerical (to a fault sometimes, ask my wife) and this practice is a bit over-the-top even for me.
Really? I’m going to take time and effort to list all my experiences in a year, give them a point value, then compare them to other years where I’ve done the same? I don’t think so.
But the concept can be altered a bit and made much simpler (and thus more useful).
Why not simply list the highlights of one year versus another? You know, the big things — a cruise, a trip to Disney, your son getting married, running a marathon, etc. This takes a fraction of the time of the proposed solution and yields the same result — it gives you a comparison of one year to another.
I like this method way better but maybe it’s just because it’s my idea. Haha.
The Memory Dividend
Now we start to address why it’s better to begin investing in experiences early in life.
I’ll share what the author says first and then give my take on it:
When you have an experience, you get that current, in-the-moment enjoyment, but you also form memories that you get to relive later. This is a big part of being present as a living human being: For better or worse, you re-experience that experience, often more than once. You might hear a favorite song, get a whiff of a familiar scent, look at an old photo, and suddenly your memory’s triggered and you are reliving that experience. You think of your first kiss, and if that was a pleasant experience, then you might feel warm and fuzzy. Or you might chuckle because you had braces and the whole experience was embarrassing but also sweet. So every time you remember the original experience, you get an additional experience from mentally and emotionally reliving the original experience.
The recollection may bring you just a tiny fraction of the enjoyment that the original experience did, but those memories add up to make you who you are.
The memory dividend is so powerful and valuable that tech companies are monetizing it and creating billions in wealth. Anyone who’s used Facebook or Google Photos has seen the occasional “On this day 3 years ago” message, twitch accompanying photos from that day. Through this feature, the companies tap into your memory dividend, sparking good feelings and a desire to reach out to those included in the photos. This whole process makes you happy — and makes you a more loyal customer.
Think back to one of the best vacations you ever had, and let’s say it lasted a full week. Now think about how much time you spent showing pictures of that trip to your friends back home. Add to that all the times you and the people you traveled with reminisced about that trip, and all the times you’ve thought about it yourself or given advice to other people considering going on a similar trip. All those residual experiences from the original experience are the dividends I’m talking about—they’re your memory dividends, and they add up. In fact, some of these memories, upon repeat reflection, may actually bring more enjoyment than the original experience itself.
So buying an experience doesn’t just buy you the experience itself — it also buys you the sum of all the dividends that experience will bring for the rest of your life.
Ok, so here’s his line of thinking:
- You have an experience and that gives you joy in and of itself.
- But you also remember the experience for the rest of your life, which gives you joy every time you remember it. This is the Memory Dividend.
- This is just like buying a stock and getting dividends. You get the stock from the get go, but it also pays you a bit here and there for the rest of the time you own it.
- Given this, it makes sense that you have experiences early in life so they can pay you memory dividends for a longer amount of time. Add up the experiences and you create your own memory dividend portfolio that keeps paying you in joyful thoughts throughout your life. The author actually says these memories “compound, just like with money in the bank.”
To illustrate compounding, he gives this example:
Due to compounding, your financial savings don’t just add up — they begin to snowball. And the same thing can happen with your memory dividends — they also can and will compound.
This happens whenever you share the memory of the experience with other people. That’s because whenever you interact with someone, sharing an experience you’ve had, that is an experience in itself. You’re communicating, laughing, bonding, giving advice, helping them, being vulnerable — you’re doing the stuff of everyday life.
By having experiences, you not only live a more engaged and interesting life yourself, but you also have more of yourself to share with others.
It’s like the idea that business begets more business. Positive experiences are radioactive and contagious in a good way; they start a chain reaction that releases more energy than you thought you had. One plus one can be more than two. That’s one of the reasons I say that you should invest in experiences.
He then shifts this line of thinking into yet another mini-rant against saving too much:
Yet again—and I can’t say this enough—many people live as if they forget that this is the point of earning, saving, and investing money. When you ask people what they’re saving money for, much of the time the answer is “retirement.”
To some extent, I get it: We all need to save and invest some amount of money for a time when we’re no longer getting a paycheck. Nobody wants to starve in their old age or make their children have to support them.
But here’s the thing: Since the whole point of money is to have experiences, investing money to get a return with which to have experiences is a roundabout way of having experiences. Why go through all that when you can just invest directly in experiences — and get a return on experiences? Not only that, but the number of actual experiences available to you diminishes as you age. Yes, you need money to survive in retirement, but the main thing you’ll be retiring on will be your memories — so make sure you invest enough in those.
This statement illustrates a couple big problems I have with this book:
- “The whole point of money is to have experiences.” No, that is not the “whole point” of money. The author often takes his own opinions and states them as fact. This drives me crazy which is one reason I dislike half this book.
- “The main thing you’ll be retiring on will be your memories.” Haha. Again, no. Go to the grocery store and tell them you want to buy your retirement food with memories because you have no cash. Let me know what they say. LOL.
Anyway, this sort of exaggeration really detracts from what is generally a decent message IMO.
But as you’ll see in this series, we’ll regularly see the author make a good point and then undercut what he just said by making some sort of stupid claim.
I’ll weed out the good stuff for you, but why does he make it so hard to do so?
Rule 2 Summary
As we wrap up this post, let’s end with a summary of this rule.
Here’s how the author sums it up:
Once you start thinking about the memory dividing, something becomes really clear: It pays to invest early. The earlier you start investing, the more time you have to reap your memory dividends. For example, if you start in your twenties (rather than your thirties), you’ll have a long tail of memory dividends — so you’ll be more likely to have the tail add up to more than the head (the number of experience points from the initial event). Clearly, the closer you are to death when you start having wonderful experiences, the fewer memory dividends you will have.
So when I say you should invest in experiences, my investment advice is pretty much standard. It’s kind of like what Warren Buffett says: Invest early, and by the time you get to a certain age, look at how much you’ve accumulated. Many investment advisors want you to start your 401(k) plan early. A lot of investment advice is like that: Start early, start early, start early. Warren Buffett and other investment advisers are trying to grow money, and I’m trying to grow the richest life I can; and when I say rich, I mean rich in experiences, in adventures, in memories — rich in all the reasons you acquire money.
So here’s my investment advice in a nutshell: Invest in your life’s experiences — and start early, start early, start early.
What’s your take on this line of thinking and (especially) the memory dividend?
For more on this topic, see my post on Rules 3 and 4.

I can agree that you should have experiences that you can look back on with joy and fondness. But you shouldn’t have a YOLO attitude and thus ignore the savings that you need to do. The fact that my husband and I ran out of money on our Europe trip (thanks to an Italian train that was rerouted – an entire train full of angry people was a sight to see and hear!!) when we were in our early 20s is now a fond memory. But then? I was hungry. I want to look back on memories and enjoy them, but I want to eat and pay for medicine and shelter in my 80s. It almost seems like the author is creating reasons for people to spend money. I agree that spending on experiences is better than on stuff. But the spending on experiences should only be done after paying the basics, which includes saving for retirement.
ESI, appreciate your examination of this book, which I coincidentally read last month. Am feeling you on the ‘abrasive’ style of asserting opinion.
Almost 25 years ago there was a book written by Michael J. Fox’s father-in-law, Stephen Pollan, called ‘Die Broke.’ It covered a similar point-of-view, along with companion book ‘Live Rich.’ The concept of ‘use your money for experiences, instead of acquisitions or safety’ had some popularity about 10 years ago, if I recall.
My own thought is, if you have the time, talent, and credibility to get a book published at an international imprint, you probably have a big leg up on the rest of us!:-) Author Bill Perkins has not had an easy life, and he had (and still has) to prove himself continually in school, work, and social circles.
His message is true for him, because his life has worked out with financial achievement that really takes the cap off for experiences Perkins can afford. By way of comparison, a homeowner nearby, in his ’70s, just had his home go into foreclosure. He spent a lot of money on ‘experiences’ and loved the dividend of telling others about them, but I’ll bet he wishes he had made a few different choices. His last decades won’t be spent in Antigua playing high stakes poker, with a yacht full of friends and a 25-year-younger hottie on his arm. My neighbor will literally ‘die with zero’ but nobody would read his book!
Thanks again for this series, ESI.
I did listen to the audio book and I do think there is some validity to the memory dividend idea but it seems that the author usually equates experiences with spending a lot of money. I think my best experiences are those that I have with others, whether it be a vacation that costs some money or is time with family and friends that is not expensive.
It seems to me this is more a work/life balance issue.
I had a hard time understanding how most people would fund their retirements based on the advice in Die With Zero. There was a brief mention of annuities but those take real money to buy. There seemed to be an assumption that higher incomes would come in due time. For a large swatch of people I don’t believe you can assume that.
There is some food for thought in Rule 2 but …
“I’d give it a 42, but I can’t dance to it.”
– Good Will Hunting
OK. So I agree experiences are important. I think you hit on the main challenge most people have with experiences: they’re end up over-spending on stuff, and underspending on experiences.
Why might this be? Maybe lack of imagination? Lack of outside interests? Lack of curiosity? I can think of any number of reasons why people I know don’t go after experiences as much as the latest iPhone or bigger flat panel tv.
I am recently retired and spend more money on experiences (sports, travel, music, eating out) than things. I am financially secure and can easily do both. But in my 20s and early 30s I had little disposable income and also spent more on experiences than things. I am so glad I did this — my memories are forever and I feel I have led a rich life, both before and after I had significant money. If anything, I wish I had taken more opportunities over the years, including ones that felt “too expensive” at the time.
Just from reading the review, if the objective is how to die with zero, I prefer Stephen Pollan’s Die Broke, which I think is a more pragmatic guidance with consistency in the approach.
A couple of counterpoints to the do it early, maximize early mindset:
1) If you try to make the best years of your life your early years to maxmize the memory dividends, you end up wiht boring stories of glory days (Thanks Bruce). You can end up not being happy with the older days of your life because that next trip to Europe or trip to that championship out-of-town game does not excite you as mich as the first time. Everything you want to do becomes more numb and ho-hum. You may try to make up for it by going for bigger and better things but we know how lifestyle creep can kill retirement. Setting up bad habits and expensive expectations young is a bad recipe and I sure as heck am NOT teaching my kid this practice. Sometimes I feel bad for big child stars and sports heros. The best years of their lives were their younger years but do thier early memory dividends make them the happiest? I don’t think so. In fact, I think it’s more satisfying buidling up more and more over time so you can savor your progess as it happens (Thanks Dad).
2) Anticipation yields dividends. There have been studies that dreaming and planning for a big event can be more fun that actually doing it. In your dreams, the events are perfect and the dreamy pleasure of anticipating an upcoming event are abruptly cheapened when reality sets. That perfect vacation is cheapened by crowded flights, bad weather, overcrowded tourist sites/restaurants, unfriendly people, stress of being late, etc.. That perfect car is plauged by worries of dents/scratches, payments, maintenance …
There can be a reasonable balance between experiences and adequate savings for retirement. In 1980 I saved and saved for a Summer college program in Greece. I arrived in Athens with $600 in traveler’s checks on Freddie Laker Airlines (remember those)? I have fond memories of the experience but I ran out of money and shopped my new $275 camera to buyers there to survive but was saved by my fellow student travelers who loaned me enough to make it through. Forty years later, I returned to Greece with my wife on a similar trip after telling her about how great it was for 20 years. I’m still frugal because of my younger experiences; we could have flown first class direct but we chose the least expensive flight with a stopover. We could have stayed in a Five Star All Inclusive but we chose a 3 star (it had to have good air conditioning is my only requirement). We could have experienced fine dining but we chose to eat in the street markets because that’s where the experiences and best food can be had. Plus we met some great locals. The whole experience was incredible… again and we want to return or at least adventure somewhere else soon. The best part is I didn’t run out of $$$😁😁😁. My point is you don’t need to break the bank for wonderful life experiences at any stage of life.
Maybe I’m the odd duck but memories do not provide a great deal of satisfaction in my opinion. They are over, in the rear view mirror, its only this one singular moment we are now in that has any potential to bring joy. I’ve had a great life, but sitting in a rocking chair and smiling about how well my kids are doing and how great that rim to rim nine hour hike in the Grand Canyon was doesn’t do much for me. Its what I’m doing right now that matters, that’s all we really have. Its what I’m experiencing now and perhaps slightly about the road trip to Alaska we are talking about in the future, if our neighbors to the north ever get the notion to open their borders again. But finding meaning in savoring past experiences, and we’ve had a ton of great ones, isn’t nearly enough for me.
Between comments here and in the forums, I think I’ve seen several responses from you that begin with “Maybe I’m the odd duck”, “I’m always the odd guy out”. “I don’t get this (what everyone else seems to get)”, or some similar sentiment.
So yes, I do think you often have a different perspective. 🙂
Not bad, just different. Maybe you should start a site called OddDuckFinance.com. LOL.
That’s better than “you kids get off my lawn.com” I guess. Crotchety old duck at that!
Can young people fully reap the memory dividend? You can have the exact same experience at ages 23, 43 and 63, for example. Does the 23 y.o. savor it as much as the 43 y.o.? Does the 43 y.o. savor it as much as the 63 y.o.? I don’t know but I suspect you appreciate experiences more as you age for a number of reasons. Some experiences, a 23 y.o. can do but a 63 y.o. cannot but I suspect most meaningful experiences can be equally performed by people of all age who are in good mental & physical health.
I think back to my youth. We went to Disneyland when I was 6 or 7 and again when I was 11 or 12. I recall loving Disneyland on the first trip but I can’t recall any specific memories. However I have distinct memories of the second trip and that was 40+ years ago. I think I understood at age 11 that the trip was a special/unusual occurrence so I made a point of paying attention.
When I was in my 20s, I thought the world would always be fun & games and the good times would keep rolling. I hadn’t been laid off, had any serious illnesses, experienced deaths in the family, etc. If I knew what was coming, I would have better appreciated those experiences in my 20s.
As they say “Youth is wasted on the young.”
This is one of the two books I’ve purchased in my life after reading it (the other is atomic habits). I’m 55, no kids, earning about 300k a year with $8 million in assets. Despite being comfortable I’m still extremely frugal. I listen to this book weekly to provide me with the motivation to spend. Not excessively, but just to not deny myself anything. I think it’s a great book for people with significant assets and trouble spending. For people with an uncertain financial future this book is a recipe for disaster.