For the vast majority of my life, where I lived was decided for me by one factor or another.
Initially, wherever my parents lived, I lived.
Then it was school. The colleges I went to (undergrad and grad) were in specific cities/areas I had to live in.
And finally, there was my career. Of course I could choose who to work for, but if I picked the employers I did, then I had to live where the job was.
In retirement, things are different.
Sure you might want to live in one place over another (for family, friends, weather, etc.), but you have much more freedom to choose where to live than you’ve probably had at any other point in your life.
And that’s what this post is about — the discussions my wife and I have been having about where we want to live in retirement.
Warning: I don’t have a lot of answers at this point. This isn’t a “How to Decide Where to Live in Retirement” post.
Instead, I’ll detail our background and thinking, then I’m counting on you to offer suggestions and advice. My hope is that others will learn from this process too so that they can decide their best retirement location.
How Did We Get Here?
Let’s rewind a bit for some backstory.
As you know, we could have retired many years earlier, when we lived in Michigan.
I loved Michigan despite the terrible weather. It was a great place to raise a family and we had many friends there.
But it’s not really what I would consider ideal retirement territory.
Instead I took a job in Oklahoma and when my “contract was exercised” (company lingo for “we are firing you but we’re paying you a lot of money to leave”) we could have retired there as well.
There was only one problem: we lived in Oklahoma.
My wife liked it there (it was a warm weather climate) but it was probably my least favorite place we’ve lived.
I loved the people, but the dirt was red (and everywhere), it was rather trashy (we used to joke that people simply threw trash out of their car windows knowing the wind would blow it into Arkansas), too hot for me (I can take heat if there’s a beach, but OK is pretty dry), and during the spring/summer months you had to fear for your life from the killer tornadoes.
If you live in Oklahoma and/or are from there and love it, I’m happy for you. I’m just saying it’s not my cup of tea.
So we decided to move on and took my last job in Colorado, arriving in Colorado Springs in the fall of 2015.
Oh, Colorado, where had you been all my life? Why didn’t I move here three decades ago?
It’s amazing here! So when my new boss turned out to be much more than I wanted to deal with, I decided to retire in my beautiful Colorado. It seemed like a no-brainer.
You would think that the story might end here — and it well may — but events have transpired recently that have us wondering whether we should stay or go.
Things to Consider
What events you might ask? Well, here are a few:
1. The winters.
I feel like a weenie even mentioning the winters. After all, we lived 14 years in Michigan. In about 10 of those years we had five plus months of cloudy, cold weather with 100+ inches of snow. So compared to that, Colorado is a breeze.
That said, if Michigan is a “1” on the winter scale and Grand Cayman is a “10”, Colorado Springs is a 5 or 6. Not bad, but not great either.
Now someone might be thinking about all the great winter activities Colorado has available.
Yes, you can drive to those if you like them, but we’re not big skiers. Plus it’s not like we live in Breckenridge, Aspen, or Vail. Ski places are hours away.
The first winter we had here was not good — lots of snow and my maniac boss made us drive in despite it being hazardous.
The next two were pretty mild, and if those would be normal, then I would rate Colorado Springs a 7 on the winter scale.
But they are not normal and this winter has been brutal — more like a 3. It’s been long, cold, and snowy and has us thinking this may not be our ideal winter climate.
2. Our daughter’s plans.
After our daughter graduated college, she moved back to Colorado Springs, which was awesome.
If she was staying here we probably would as well.
But she has a fiance, will be getting married soon, and will be leaving the area (he’s in the army). That means we have one less (major) tie to our city (our son would likely move with us as he’s always up for an adventure).
Now she could move and then come back. Or she could move and never come back. They plan to come back but those of us who have lived several decades know that life has a way of changing your plans.
3. The housing market is on fire.
The housing market in Colorado Springs has been on a steady march upward the past three years!
I don’t know what our house is worth now, but my guess would be $80k more than we paid for it (we paid $370k and now I’d estimate it being worth $450k after realtor’s fees).
Better yet, they are putting the finishing touches on a new hospital about five blocks from our house.
Do you know who needs nice, big houses and has plenty of money to over-pay for them? Doctors.
Realtor friends have said they think the hospital makes our area ready for a mini-boom on top of what the city has already seen.
So within the next year or so might be the time to cash in and call it a day on home ownership.
4. Loving Grand Cayman.
You’re probably tired of me talking about Grand Cayman, but we really do love it there, especially given the winter we had.
We should have stayed longer than 10 days this year, but that can be rectified easily. That said, I’m not sure there’s enough to do there if we wanted to stay a long time.
Plus it’s kinda pricey — both the places to stay as well as the food.
And it’s a bit far (though there is a new direct flight from Denver taking only 4.5 hours).
Anyway, if we could find a cheaper, closer place similar to Grand Cayman in the US, that would be pretty nice.
5. Plans by other family members and friends.
Turns out a lot of our family is thinking of converging on one particular state.
My wife’s oldest sister has one of her kids in Florida and she visits regularly.
My wife’s oldest brother is thinking of moving from California (where he has what I would call a below average house here that’s worth twice what my house is) to Florida to escape the out-of-control taxes there.
My wife’s youngest brother has retired from the army and is looking at leaving Pennsylvania winters in favor of Florida beaches.
My wife’s youngest sister spends a few weeks each winter in Florida escaping the cold. Her husband retires next April and they may be expanding the time there.
My parents are hitting the road in an RV this fall and plan to spend winters in Florida.
We have a lot of friends who live in Florida (all over the state).
Anyway, I think you get the idea. It seems like everyone we know is either moving to Florida, thinking about it, or at least spending a good part of the winter there.
We’re also pretty familiar with the state. I lived there in middle school (Orlando), visited often (my aunt lived in Key West and then St. Pete), and we’ve been there on vacation (Disney and a cruise departure.)
So the Sunshine State has popped up on our radar.
6. Downsizing.
Currently my wife, son, and I live in a home that could easily fit a family of 10.
Ok, maybe that’s a bit overboard, but when four of us lived here, a five bedroom, 4.5 bathroom, 3,800 square foot house was still pretty big. Even when we have company take over our basement for visits we still have plenty of room.
Now that there are three of us (and could be two at any time) do we really need (or even want) a place this big?
Probably not.
Housing Objectives
So where does this leave us?
Taking all the considerations above into account, we come up with these thoughts…
1. We would like to live in as little winter as possible.
The weather issue is a balance. We don’t want the toughest part of winter — which is basically January through March here. If we could avoid those months and be elsewhere when it’s cold here, that would be great.
That said, I dislike high heat as much as I dislike cold (probably even more). The one exception is where there’s a beach it feels less hot to me. Anyway, I don’t want to move year-around to a hot climate. We’ve lived in warm-weather climates (Nashville, Oklahoma City) and the summers are brutal.
Even as a kid I remember the Florida summers being too hot for me.
So any solution we come up with probably means we don’t live in the same spot year around.
2. We don’t want to abandon Colorado completely.
As noted in point #1, we love it here nine months out of 12. In fact, it’s close to perfect those months.
Plus who knows, maybe our daughter will stay and/or move back. And we have friends here, of course.
All this leads me to believe that I don’t see us coming up with a plan that has us leaving Colorado and never coming back.
3. At least some part of the year needs to involve a beach.
Whether it’s a trip to Grand Cayman, a Caribbean cruise, or a longer living arrangement, part of each year needs to involve a beach of some sort.
The beach speaks to me. It says, “Come, you love it here.” And I do. š
Specifically, I prefer clear water beaches like you find all over the Caribbean. A body of water that’s not that clear is just not as appealing to me.
4. If we want to downsize (which I think we do at some point), then selling in the next year or so is probably a great time to move on.
I can just see a nice cardiologist living here. She could pay us a fortune, then gut the whole place and put in high-end doctor stuff. š
Her commute to work would be 10 minutes — if she WALKED.
On a bike it would take five. In a car, three.
It’s a win-win.
In addition, not having a house would make a semi-nomadic lifestyle much easier.
So What Are We Thinking?
Given all of the above, here’s what we’re toying with at the moment:
- Sell our home in Colorado Springs within the next year.
- Rent a place in Colorado Springs for April through December each year.
- Rent a place on the gulf-side of Florida for January through March each year.
Of course this is easier said than done. There are lots of considerations that go into something like this.
Our Considerations
Here are issues we need to confront if we plan on proceeding with the plan above:
1. There are pros and cons of selling the house.
We’d have to get rid of a bunch of belongings and it would be a hassle for a time (if you’ve ever lived in a home for sale, you know what I mean), but it would probably sell rather quickly.
The hardest part might be selecting who sells the house. We have about 50 friends who are real estate agents.
For a counter-point to this, we COULD rent the home for extra income. From looking at similar places it appears we could get $2,500 a month on the low end to $3,000 a month on the high end.
We could also AirBnB it and make a fortune in the summer and during Air Force Academy major events.
But do we want the hassle of that? If the house was in Michigan we’d simply roll it into our management company. But do we want to deal with an entirely new manager, more tenants, etc.?
2. Can we find places to rent for part of the year in Florida and Colorado?
I’m sure we could find a January through March rental in Florida, but could we find a 9-month rental in Colorado Springs?
And, of course, both places would need to be furnished.
One option could be to buy a duplex, rent out one side, live in the other, and have the tenant watch our place next door while we were gone.
3. Could we downsize enough to be mobile and live in two places?
Like most Americans, we are stuff collectors.
Even though we cleaned out when we left Michigan and again when we left Oklahoma, we still have lots of stuff. Can we get rid of it all?
Even more, can we live without it?
It’s an interesting question to ponder: what is the absolute minimum (or at least a reasonable minimum) of items a family needs?
4. Is mobile life good or bad?
We’ve never lived in two spots, so we don’t know what it’s like.
Do you lose community in both places or do your friend double in size?
Do you feel like nomads with no specific “home” or it home wherever you are?
Anyone have any advice on this? We’re completely in the dark on this topic.
5. What are the cost implications of such a plan?
While money isn’t really an issue (within reason), we also don’t want/need an extravagant lifestyle. It’s not our style plus spending more generally comes with its own set of problems that neither one of us wants to deal with.
And since I brought up the issue of money and this is a personal finance blog, let’s look at some numbers…
What are the Financial Implications?
Here are some general thoughts on costs related to all these issues:
1. Owning a huge house is expensive.
We don’t have a mortgage, but there are still taxes, insurance, utilities, and the wildcard of maintenance (which could be almost nothing or could be $4k when your heater goes out).
And the biggest cost is that we have a $450k asset that has appreciated nicely, but at some point likely won’t appreciate much more (and could go down).
If we could sell the place and invest it at 2.5% on the low end and 10% on the high end (I recently found a real estate investor who pays this) that means we’d earn between $11,250 to $45k annually from it.
These dollars would go a long way towards paying rent at some nice places.
2. Renting and moving back and forth is expensive.
Is it more expensive than owning a house?
I think it depends — on the house, the places you rent, how you move back and forth, etc.
I’d personally be ok with a mobile solution that would cost $20k more per year, so we could get what we wanted.
3. Taxes are better in Florida.
Haha! You knew I was going to bring this up, right?
I’m wondering if we can/should live longer each year in Florida to establish it as our state of residency.
No state income taxes is very nice. š
Then again, our Colorado taxes this year were $2,440 so it’s not like we’d save a fortune.
Next Steps
Now that everything is on the table, here’s what we’re doing as of now (this is highly subject to change):
1. We’ve narrowed the focus of where to look in Florida.
Initially we started with the entire state, but have decided the gulf-side beach towns are best for us. The water is clear (like the Caribbean) and beaches are beautiful, or so I’m told.
In particular, we’re going to concentrate from Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater to anyplace south. Those are the places that have 70 degree temps even in January.
2. We’re doing remote research.
This involves a couple of things.
First, we’re looking online at data (like temps), housing costs, reviews, etc.
Second, we are talking to as many people as we can who either live in our target areas or visit them.
If you fit this criteria, I’d love to hear your thoughts.
3. We are planning a scouting trip(s).
We were initially headed to Destin, Florida in October since we’ve heard so many great things about it, but it turns out Destin in January isn’t as warm as my wife would like. So if we don’t want to stay there as part of our long-term plans, why would we want to scout it out as a potential location?
As such, we’ve altered plans and are likely headed to Siesta Key, Florida in October/early November (still working out the details).
In addition to enjoying the life there, we’ll do a bit of exploring (both north and south) to see what we like and dislike.
Then this coming winter we’ll head back down again for a month-long tour of the places we liked. We’ll probably fly to Tampa, rent a car, and head south.
That’s a long way away at this point, so it’s highly subject to change.
4. I need to begin the “what do we do in Colorado?” process.
This means taking steps on selling the house and finding places here to rent.
To be truthful I dread the thought of it (real estate agents here are like sharks in a pool of blood), but it has to be done.
5. I’m posting this so you can help.
I’m sure many of you can offer ideas on our line of thinking, the pros and cons of various places in Florida, or a host of other things we haven’t thought of or have wrong.
So let me have your comments below — I’m looking forward to hearing them.
We are in exactly the same place as you and having the exact same thoughts. But we are in a suburb on Buffalo, NY. All 3 of our children are gone and the weather is getting harder to take. Like many, we are looking at Southwest Florida. Spent several weeks in Naples looking at gated communities. Luckily we are going with good friends. Itās tough to meet people unless you live in some sort of retiree community, gated or otherwise. So look like thatās what weāll do.
Also canāt decide if we should have just one home and rent in Florida or vice versa. Own in Florida and rent back in Buffalo. Or own 2 homes or rent where our oldest will probably settle and have children ( heās almost engaged). So there are MANY moving parts. We are early sixties so need to figure this out. We are renting for a month next winter in gated community we are most interested in. I want to look a bit near Sarasota area, but honestly unless you stay somewhere for a few weeks itās tough to get a real sense of a place. No family members except my 91 year old mom in Florida and sheās 2 hours away on east coast.
Will be reading comments for insight as well.
I agree about the “few weeks” comment. That’s why we’re heading down this fall but plan to go down next winter for a longer period…we’ll see if that’s what transpires.
The million moving parts is the worst problem — I’m working on a plan to eliminate a few of those. š
Keep in mind that several of the smaller towns on the gulf, as well as many condo HOAs, donāt allow daily or weekly rentals. I think itās their way of limiting the constant moving in and out of guests.
I’ve heard that…we have friends who own a place that they use 4 months out of the year, but can’t rent out the other months.
Have you considered listing the house yourself, using a discount broker? In Texas, many brokers charge $500 to get your home listed in MLS (multiple listing properties in what it stands for here), which basically means your home is marketed locally to all other real estate agents, as well as nationally and on the Internet on Realtor.com, etc. You may need to pay a buyerās broker 1-2% of the purchase price, but if a seller comes to you directly and without a agent you could cut out that cost ā or split it with the. Buyer via a lower purchase price. On a $450k house, a 6% fee is $27,000. Not a bad ROI for taking your own pictures, writing your own house description (to make it sound more attractive than it is), showing your home (youāre doing most of the work on that already just by getting it ready to be seen in āshowroomā condition), and perhaps engaging the real estate agent or a lawyer for another $500 – $2500 to assist with the contract or final sales price negotiations.
Yes, I’ve considered it. Just need to weigh the pros and cons more.
My guess is that we could get as much for the house as an agent (at least in this hot market) so it’s a possibility.
We just downsized less than two years ago. The getting rid of āstuffā was harder and took longer than I thought it would. We have now settled into a smaller home with a smaller and less cluttered lifestyle. It is not our forever home but it is closer to the simple life that retirement, in our opinion, should be. All future purchases now must include: āwhat are we getting rid of?ā As Marie Kondo would say ādoes this bring you joy? ā
Keep up the great blogging!
Hmmmm. That’s a good point about getting rid of stuff. Perhaps we should begin that part ASAP.
We have friends in Siesta Key and itās lovely … until they had to rebuild their just-completed home after a hurricane a couple years ago. They evacuated to NC and worried about their home for over a week until they returned to a sorry scene. Imagine doing that as a 70-year old, after having been ordered to leave.
May I suggest you investigate the coastal Southeast, including the mountainous areas of Georgia and the Carolinas? Hereās an interesting article on the same issue and while I wonāt spoil the ending, Iāll say it was gratifying to see this couple selected the exact area where we own a lake lot where weāll be building our final home in a couple years, from which we will drive our RV south to enjoy warm weather breaks in Florida when the mild winters (great hiking weather!) get a little old.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/our-15-year-quest-to-find-the-perfect-place-to-retire-1542717748
Thanks, I’ll check that out.
The weather issues don’t bother us that much (a side effect of living in Oklahoma for two years — those storms are REALLY bad and very frequent). But I hear you. That is one reason renting might be better than buying.
Ugh. I can’t read it. The WSJ wants me to subscribe!!!
[deleted as noted below — but it was very good if you can see it.] š
Ha! Thanks!
I’ll take this down later as I’m sure the WSJ doesn’t want their content shared so completely, so anyone who wants to read it should do so SOON.
Here?
https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/15-year-quest-find-perfect-place-retire/
Thank you Jay.
I liked reading
Yep! Thanks!
I am from Massachusetts. I wanted to find out if I could tolerate the Florida heat in summer. I visited Clear Water area 3 years ago in June. The heat, especially the humidity is worse than Northeast winter. Of course the winter months in Florida is great. You may want to check out there in summer…
Haha! Yes, when we lived in FL while I was in middle school the summers were terrible — even as a kid.
I think summers in CO get too hot, so I couldn’t take FL in the summer for sure.
Ok… as it was documented in my Retirement Interview (RI-6) we did move to Florida at retirement 2 years ago.
> If you’re visiting/scouting, it’s a must that you visit during the same time span you plan to ultimately be here (Jan-Mar). There is a significant transient population (snowbirds) that transform beach towns in the winter from sleepy enclaves to overcrowded, traffic nightmares. Rent a home (not a hotel or other resort style place) and try to stay for at least 2 weeks to get as immersed as possible into what it’s like to live as a resident.
> Naples is gorgeous, great restaurants, upscale downtown, although expensive, but it suffers significantly from winter crowding.
> For better or worse, the beaches tend to be the driver. If you can find a nice town/city within a short drive to a beach you may find the inflow/outflow more acceptable.
> The weather is quite different as well. Jan-Mar is much cooler (although wonderful) than October which can still be quite hot and humid. Nov. is nice but doesn’t fairly represent Jan-Mar. And as you noted, the temps differ a lot as you range from north to south. The gulf waters cool significantly in the winter… down to around 65 degrees. For us that’s not swimmable. In the summer they go up to close to 90 degrees.
> Siesta Key is a cool place although small, has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world (known for the white sugar sand), but with that comes a HUGE influx of snowbirds. If you don’t get to the beach parking lot early during the winter, you’re not going to get in.
> We chose to make Florida our full time home and are happy with that decision. We have many friends that are snowbirds and they tend to miss a lot in our circle of friends during the summer and shoulder months. That’s generally a personal decision sometimes driven by the need/requirement to take care of/visit parents or other relatives up north.
> If we were going to be transient, we’d stay here 8 months a year and go elsewhere from June-Sept. We currently plan to do a majority of our travel to cooler climes during that time. We see many who thought they were going to stay only 3 months a year gradually shift their time more and more here than there.
> We’re happy to “endure” the summers here rather than the winters in NE. For us that was an easy decision. No need to shovel sunshine!
I’m reluctant to say on this board exactly where we live but you have my email and happy to use that for more personal/private conversations. We’d also be open to a visit, perhaps over dinner, to our little piece of paradise when you’re down here!
Venice, Port Charlotte ? I know these areas are near beaches but fairly quiet . Some of these smaller towns are a bit too quiet. Naples is near Marco island with its amazing beaches as well.
I have a friend who lives in Venice and LOVES it.
I’ll send you an email. š
Also in the same boat! Except our retirement hinges on the sale of our property. We live in a 5000 sq ft home on 250 acres of Missouri cattle farm country. Been on the market for nearly a year, may be several more before we find a buyer!
We know where we need to be, Okeechobee, FL. My mother in law needs daily assistance, she has Parkinson’s, age 88, and lives with my sister in law. We have a 1 year old grandson in NJ, and we would love to be close as he grows up, but realistically don’t want HCOL, high taxes, etc.
Daughter who will be moving to Ft Worth, and that’s a beautiful location.
We’ve been married 45 years, dated for 5 years before that, and have always loved Colorado, always talked about living there, but,…!! We have friends who live in Oregon, love the climate there. Realizing, like you, that for the first time in our lives we literally can live anywhere in the world we want, but still, for us, family is more important than other considerations.
We are semi retired in Missouri, and have one child in high school yet. We bought a fixer condo on the beach in Venice Fl a few years ago, with plans to winter there after our daughter leaves the nest. After some climate research we discovered that for 72 + degree winters you must be south of Tampa. Venice is a smaller town of 25k, so the prices are lower for beach or near-beach property. Itās also very close to Sarasota, which has all the things we want to do. We spent one winter in Venice while homeschooling our daughter and found that January has both 72 and 55 degree days. And the feel-like temps on the beach are always cooler, so this makes winter walks less pleasant,, and fall & spring walks more pleasant. We try to avoid summer there, but the kids love swimming in the ocean when itās very warm out. We rent our condo out for $5000 per month in the winter months since we canāt be there except for long holidays. We found the gulf side to have much calmer water, but itās also more retiree-oriented. Some of the towns have over half the population over 65. But retired people are very active in FL. Walking on the beach, golfing, biking (no hills), and kayaking are all popular. In Venice there is a bike/walk trail along the canal that connects to the rails-to-trails system to get all the way to Sarasota. Itās pretty cool to see baby gators along the trail and also ride over bridges crossing the bay. We also have a large home we hope to sell. We are not sure if we want to summer in Missouri, which can be hot, or maybe go to CO or somewhere else thatās cooler. Every retiree tells me we will end up where or grand kids are. So much for planning. Enjoy the search! It can be just as much fun as finally landing in that perfect spot.
Thanks! Appreciate this!
I know how hot summers can be in MO. I grew up in Iowa on the IA/MO border. š
This article really hit home as we are in a similar process of many points of this article: downsizing our home, pairing down our home contents, visiting areas in FL and TX, deciding if we rent in the summer and head north. Our story is similar to RI6 in many ways. We started looking from Clearwater Beach to FT. Meyers, we got caught in a tornado near Sienna Keys and then a hurricane shortly after, made us rethink FL. We have one left in College before we will make a decision but getting rid of āSTUFFā is a priority now so it will make things easier when the time comes. Lots to think about and interested in what others have experienced.
Several years ago my husband and I began the retirement/move process. We wanted the south; (he is from Atlanta) walking friendly (I don’t drive), downtown living, church access. We narrowed it down to SC; and 18 months I rented a one bedroom apartment in downtown Spartanburg, SC to see how it would work. You can have two sets of friends, two church families-but health care is an issue; and needs to be really studied. I define health care as drs, dentists, pharmacy, chiropractors, and insurance) Supplements to Medicare are state driven; and supplements have some flaky rules. (I might write a book on this topic.) Will you need two sets of drs, dentists, etc? Two states could also complicate taxes and if you use an accountant you need one who is familiar with that state. Do you use a national bank; or local? Serious decluttering takes time-and the time to do it is when you have lots of energy and friends with trucks and young backs. Does your primary location have possible Senior facilities when you need them? And what about end of life issues-once again that is state driven; and there are some flaky rules out there. Will you need two sets of end of life plans. (I come from a very large family (8 siblings) who are spread out and I have experienced this as an issue.) Just some thoughts.
The doctor issue is a big one — really like my doctors here.
Once again ā- perfect timing!
This post really helps us, as we continue to think (dream) about our forever home. Although weāre still working (20 months before we call it quits), we plan to continue our search for our final āforeverā home š ā
As I read through all the comments, I realize others in this community are dealing with some of the same issues weāre having about landing in the right spot in the future.
Part of the fun is the dream and part of the fun is the search ā- yepā we are dreamers (me more so) and we love to search new areas, so reading about other states really peaks my interestā- although we love Texas, weāre an open book and open to new and better ideas.
Quick question about moving to that forever home and grandkids ā-???
I wonder how much living close to grandkids impacts others as they think about moving to that final place ā-?
We have 3 grandkids now and will welcome our 4th later this year ā- her name is Remy Lynn š
Thanks ESI for pushing me to help develop an even better āforeverā home plan for the future.
Good advice MA THORNTON, we considered MA as a summer area, but after settling my sisters estate in MA we realized why they call it TAXachussetts!! Soured us on MA. For now we will stay put and use our RV to explore areas of interest (leaving Estes Park, CO today). Texas is a wonderful place in many ways but the summers are tough. I can tolerate the heat better than the cold. The search continues!!
If you love Colorado that much I’d recommend buying and downsizing there to a condo or townhouse and either buy or rent in Florida like you described. I have a good friend in Siesta Key on the water and hugely expensive but off the water a bit gets easier. My parents moved to Bradenton Florida, just north of Siesta Key and while the winters are nice, as others have said the summers can be tough for those not used to it. I’ve lived in Atlanta for 29 years, am used to the humidity. Agree with the commenter that summers in New England are very nice too if Colorado doesn’t work out. I grew up in the burbs of Boston, love it…in summer.
Heat and humidity here too! Yuk. But I’m sure compared to Atlanta it’s nothing! I just can’t deal with humidity- I instantly sweat and feel dirty. LOL
Meaning here in New England! Sorry.
That’s kind of the rub for us.
If we sell our house and look for a condo here, we are stuck:
*If we move south of where we live, there are less desirable neighborhoods.
*If we move north, it’s new construction and the new condos cost as much as our house does now. So we make nothing and lose the walkability we have now (gym, grocery store, park, etc.) only for the benefit of having a smaller house.
So we’re still deciding what to do…
We just returned from vacation at Siesta Key and the beach is amazing. Neighboring Sarasota had more restaurants and things to do vs Siesta Key and there are plenty of other beach choices in the area. The sunsets are amazing and gulf side sure seems nicer to us.
We sold our house 2 1/2 years ago and got rid of 90% of our stuff. We are renting a 3BR apartment and love the freedom and decrease in stress from owning, and we will be in a similar phase as you in a few years. When we moved here’s an order of purging that worked for us: 1) We found a place to rent 2) moved what we wanted to the apartment and small storage facility (we even got rid of old furniture and started anew). 3) All remaining stuff was to be gone….by a) estate sale and b) outside charity place that took all remaining stuff out (and also threw out what they couldn’t take). House was empty except for one piece and then ready to be cleaned.
Good luck and enjoy the traveling!
I like that system — and may use it. Thanks!
After living in Michigan for 14 years I know youāre familiar with the snowbird concept. All the snowbirds I know in Michigan that winter over in Florida buy the house they spend the most time in and rent the other.
Most downsize to small condos on both ends to free them from the maintenance requirements. Many look for single stories so that as they age life is on one floor. We also notice in our family eventually the migration to Florida creeps longer and longer.
Another popular option are small lake homes in Michigan. Summers are spectacular here, but also spectacularly short.
This is the option my wife and I will pursue. Our current discussions revolve around gulf or Atlantic side. I prefer Atlantic, she prefers Ft Myers / Naples area.
Now for a truly radical idea read this article about a couple who perpetually rent all over the globe. This would be my dream, but not my wifeās. But a hybrid version of both the snowbird plan and this international plan may work for us initially.
https://considerable.com/retire-abroad/
Can’t wait to read that post! We have considered the Caribbean as a location…
If you are looking for clear water beaches, you need to be very careful where on the gulf coast you go. Look up lake Okeechobee water releases, to see devastating results in SW Florida. Lee county ( north of Naples) river, canals and beaches have been hit hard. Counties to the north and south to a somewhat lesser degree. Sanibel island removed tons of dead fish, toxic algae and red tide have affected breathing. Iāve lived here over 30 years and the water here is not clear. The other readers comments about traffic and crowds everywhere during Jan through March should not be taken lightly.
There are trade offs everywhere, but you should definitely ālive the areaā during time frame you are considering before making a decision. Good luck š
Yes, we’ve read a bit about this…
This is a dilemma many of us face, it is great to hear how others tackle this problem. I will share my story; my husband and I live in the Puget Sound area, for me, my entire life (55 years). We have no children, but large extended family and friends. We live on property my grandparents settled in 1929, with a family history that is difficult to depart. We own an apartment building within 3/4 mile of our home, and five rental houses that we can see from our front window. Winters in Washington our very gray and soggy, our plan is to seek a warmer climate during the winter, we are exploring, but are settling on Palm Desert (lots of friend) for a semi permanent location, we are looking at a condo that we can use and share with friends and family or a simple park model in one of the up and coming revitalized park communities, (we will rent both next year and determine which situation is best for us) as well as extended vacations to as many warm weather spots while we are young and can enjoy. Florida, Caribbean, etc…
We have opted not to depart from our current housing situation, but modify it. We own a house on an acre that is a bit too large. We are in the process of placing a MIL (ADU) dwelling behind our existing home. We are super excited, this solution allows us keep our existing location, but downsize. The ADU unit (950 square feet) is not visible from the street front, it will allow us a “lock and leave” lifestyle, and a place to come back to all year long if we need to. We can also move back into our current home we love anytime we like, and gives us flexibility with the ADU later in life (caretakers, etc…) We are installing camera systems around the property to monitor remotely.
With our ties to the PNW that we do not want to leave behind, we felt this was a great solution for us.
We are also excited to find a solution in a warm weather climate that we can share with friends and family, but not feel too tied down with.
Love hearing everyone’s stories on how they are addressing downsizing, warmer climates and friends and family.
I LOVE this idea!!!!
I’m wondering if we can build a tiny house in our back yard. š
We considered Florida because of the tax situation and warm winters (If you stay in South Florida) but eventually ruled against it because of the crowds and most of the best places are over run in the winter with people just like us. (People joke it’s Gods waiting room) Long waits at restaurants and the beaches get crowded.
We ended up wintering on the big island of Hawaii and summer at our lake house in Missouri. Hawaii is expensive but favorable tax advantages for pensions and sales tax is 4 percent. Property tax for residents is also pretty reasonable. The big island is not crowded if you stay away from the resorts and has the best beaches in the US. Winters are never below 70 degrees and very little rain in the Northwest of the island. It’s not for everybody but suits us well for 6 months each year.
I recommend trying to be mobile and having two places if it can work for you. We developed great friends in both locations and we all take care of each others places when out of town. When the grand kids come along we also hope to entice plenty of visits to our family favorite locations.
I am seeing (and heard of) a lot of comments about how crowded it gets. Do you think it’s because these are such great locations AND they are in the U.S.?
I ask about the U.S. part because when we go to Grand Cayman in January Seven Mile Beach is a ghost town — it’s wonderful! It would be hard to imagine a better beach than this and yet there are no crowds…so I’m wondering why there’s so much congestion in FL.
The congestion in FL is due to the many snowbirds from the North that migrate primarily Oct-Apr. It makes the streets, interstates, and restaurants busy, but most of the beaches are not crowded (except touristy ones like Siesta Key).
ESI, two things stand out, that I love, in your post.
1) “Iād personally be ok with a mobile solution that would cost $20k more per year, so we could get what we wanted.” This is awesome that you put a number on it. The ‘feeling’ your family has now is going to change, and is hard to measure. But when you put an actual number on the value of an experience, and what you would consider ‘worth’, it makes the decision LOTS easier.
2) getting rid of stuff – Yes! Especially books and furniture. Again, you can ‘put a number’ on what it would cost you to replace what you want. Compare that ‘number’ to moving the books and furniture (as well as storing it in your new place), and you have some good criteria. Lose the stuff, it is only stuff!
Last thought – you are in great shape and still young, but a one-story home where you can age-in-place might be of long-term value. Whatever you decide will be right for you!
All good points…and I might go higher than $20k if it’s worth it. š
Born and raised in Massachusetts and spent 12 years in Indianapolis, so I get the long gray cold winters and never wish to do that again. Was voluntarily relocated to FL for work and chose a somewhat rural Orlando suburb for proximity to the airport, (but the area is now growing like mad). Been here 6 years and really like it, built a nice 3200 sf 1 story home with a pool that is very comfortable, however the summers are hot. Personally though, I would take 4 months of AC living to 8 months of living with the heat on any day. I have always wanted to live on the Ocean, so 5 years ago started looking around at coastal towns and communities for a second home with a plan of, post retirement perhaps selling the primary and transitioning to that. Looked all over the state, and as I travel the state of FL for work I get to experience a lot of areas. I spent a lot of time on the gulf coast from Tampa to Naples and frankly, just not my thing, the annual snowbird invasion is overwhelming and real estate, especially near the ocean was expensive, even during the real estate downturn, and I also wanted laid back enviornment, (sorry Naples folks) but I am more of a shorts and baseball cap guy instead of a linen pants and loafers guy. I ended up buying a 1200 sf condo 40 feet from the Ocean on the Atlantic side just north of Stuart Fl on Hutchinson Island for half of what a similar property would have cost on the gulf side. A great little town with a lot going on, decent restraunts, and a laid back beachy feel. We rent the place for January, February and March to the same snowbirds every year and it covers all operating expenses as we own it outright.
We get to enjoy it for nine months out of the year essentially for free and could easily live there full time if needed. I was considering another property in Southern ME or perhaps Cape Cod, however real estate there is very high, but, pretty reasonable to rent in the off season, such as September and October. So, the most recent plan is that we may rent for a few months on Cape Cod as that is when we enjoy New England the most.
See my comment above about crowds in FL versus Grand Cayman. Any insight into why it’s so crowded in one and not the other?
Snowbirds are familiar with FL, they can drive here, many have relatives and/or friends here, and you must fly to Grand Cayman. Then you likely have to rent a car, you’re in unfamiliar culture/place, etc. That would be my best guesstimate.
We moved to the Gulf coast of Florida last year from Ohio. I also was looking from Tampa and south, with many friends just south of Tampa. We bought in Bradenton – minutes from I-75 and about 30 minutes from some of the best beaches in the US.
I really liked Venice and the surrounding area but made our decision partially due to proximity to friends. While Venice prices have gone up and it gets quite crowded in winter, Northport is the next set of exits and still has many nice neighborhoods with reasonable prices.
We sold our home in Ohio because we are still working and one house is enough! It is hot in summer, but mornings and evenings are pleasant – and the A/C works great since they knew it gets hot when they built these houses. Two of our twenty-something children are with us for now, while another is working in Ohio. When we see where everyone ends up we can think about if we want to rent near them in summers – or just do most of our traveling during the summer months and miss the worst of it.
There is a lot to like about this part of Florida – and due to it being a vacation destination you can get flights to everywhere easily. I highly recommend it!
See the crowded question above (FL versus Grand Cayman)…any insight into why FL is so crowded and a stunning place like Seven Mile Beach isn’t?
I would speculate that being able to drive your own car is a big reason that most snow birds like to stay in the continental US, rather than venture out to places where you must get there by plane.
A reason I would have right now is that the world seems very volatile both politically and weather wise. Being on US soil feels safer for US citizens and being in the continental US feels safer during hurricane season. Your house may get destroyed in Florida just like it would on an island. But in Florida, you have so many more places to escape to.
I think the crowding issue is mostly in the winter from the snowbirds (or so it seems).
There are few hurricanes in January through March… š
The car thing might be one big issue. Perhaps cost as well? Many Caribbean islands are expensive…especially the nice, safe, clean ones.
It’s more than just a retirement housing decision though, yes? More of a lifestyle decision, as where we live often dictates how we live. We’re in the same transition process here, with many of the same desires. I lived in Florida (St. Pete) for many years, and much prefer the Gulf Coast. The difference and vibe contrast between east and west Florida is notable.
We now have the “Big House” in Idaho, the “Baby House” in an Arizona resort, and like you, have a jones for tropical beaches (google Naples Pier Web Cam and you can lose hours), so we’re figuring out that piece. While the Gulf Coast might not be Turks and Caicos, it does allow for long-term co-location and a reasonably priced martini.
This year we started living and working from both homes (we work online), and the logistics can get comical; realizing that you left your ‘good’ hammer in the Baby House and relearning where the cups are in the Big House. Like you, we love life (in Idaho) for 6 months of the year, but are considering selling, renting, AirBNB-ing. We’ve been revisiting the Florida Gulf Coast, scouting the area (Venice, Naples) and know that we love that area. Toes in warm sand every year is a must.
It helps to know there are no “wrong” choices, just “better” choices. Although some may be better than others in the long run, we make the best decisions we can with the knowledge that have accrued. Like you we research, talk to locals, take our time, “test the waters.” We go back and forth, create options, talk it out, change our minds – so that when we do pull the trigger, we’re as confident as we can be. As my wife says, “Nothing is irrefixable.”
Thanks for your post and for sharing your journey. I anticipate updates as you make your path. This will be a fun chapter in your lives. Downsizing is alot of no fun but have fun anyways. There’s a whole cool country out there and alot people sauntering the Naples pier with coffee this morning. Someday soon again.
I like āNothing is irrefixable.ā
That offers a lot of freedom. If we do all our research, pick a spot, move there, and hate it, we can simply change.
Great discussion! Decisions regarding where to live after retirement are always tricky. Have you considered the possibility of the other side of the country? Here in Arizona, we are considered to be in the land of contrasts ā we have a variety of microclimates.
Two cities that are often recommended as great retirement locations are Prescott and Flagstaff. Although Flagstaff does get quite a bit of snow, both of these cities are excellent places to live year-round.
One other recommendation might be to rent or buy a large motorhome and test out a whole bunch of places before you make a long-term commitment.
I live in the hottest part of Arizona, but then I’ve been hiking in the state for about 40 years and I’m very used to the heat.
I am currently living the dumbest existence here as a reverse Snowbird. This includes being here most of the year, and then spending most of December visiting the grandkids in Wisconsin in order to freeze my tookus off.
Our neighbor across the street has been thinking of moving to AZ, but it’s not my cup of tea.
We already live in a mountainous/dry part of the country, so much of that is the same as AZ. Plus I REALLY like the water and would love to be near a big body to swim, boat, etc.
Life very similar to yours. Lived 25 years in Durango, Colorado and raised our two kids in that small tourist town.
Downsized to west Phoenix where it is booming and a new house with amazing community amenities was less than half the price. Sure it is hot three months a year but no humidity like Florida. Summer is just the opposite of winter in Colorado. You stay indoors a lot in the air conditioning. Hiking all around us.
We are five hours from the west coast beaches and two hours to the cool mountains and skiing in the winter. We leave at least a week a month in the warm months. My arthritis and back injuries feel much better here and NO SNOW to shovel! Well designed communities and low taxes. Major airport close by so no multiple connecting flights.
Reconsider!!! God bless
oh, in west Phoenix we have the large Lake Pleasant ten minutes away with boating, swimming, fishing, etc…
I’m a 7th generation native San Franciscan who now lives in metro Atlanta. I’ve been all over the world, and lived part of my childhood in Paris (which I still visit regularly), and consider Northern California to be the best place on earth, but the insane cost of living (which I can afford, I just don’t want to pay that much), over regulations and psychotic politicians made me move east not long after I graduated from CAL. I lived in Midtown Atlanta for many years and liked it, but after being burglarized twice (in a “secure” high rise condo building) and semi-kidnapped once (a guy grabbed me off of the sidewalk and tried to throw me in is car), we moved out to the northwestern suburbs a few years ago. It’s fine; I’ll live here the rest of my life. I’m not in love with it and don’t consider it “home”, but the cost of living, taxes, climate and politics are reasonable. I go home to California very frequently (the rest of my family could not be blasted out of the state). No place is perfect (California would be without the current politicians), and I’m a realist, so I’m fine here. I paid $600,000 cash for a beautiful house on the grounds of a country club. A small one bedroom condo in need of renovation in a scary SF neighborhood would be around $875,000 and would probably sell well over the asking price. I love that the Atlanta airport is a major international hub so I can travel anywhere easily. I can be home in SF in five hours, and am there very often. The good outweighs the bad in my part of Atlanta, so I’m staying. Good luck with your hunt for the perfect destination, just don’t be surprised when it doesn’t live up to your expectations.
We live in Sarasota, FL and have definitely seen the congestion increase for several reasons:
1. Florida, in general, is just becoming more populated and crowded everywhere. Last year it surpassed NY to become the 3rd most populated state in the country.
2. Several years ago Siesta Key beach made it to #1 on the annual top ten beach list published by Dr. Beach. As you can imagine, the visitors bureau took this and ran with it.
3. In relation to that, the Baltimore Orioles moved here for spring training several years ago resulting in heavy cross-promotion between the Sarasota and Baltimore/Washington DC markets.
Finally, it really is a beautiful place to
live and people are hooked once they come to visit. We just have the privilege of already living here.
I get tremendous value from reading your blog so please feel free to reach out as Iām more than happy to be of any assistance I can.
Appreciate that!
I think IR-6 covered SW Florida well. If $2400 in taxes last year was Realestate taxes, then I doubt you will find lower taxes in Florida.
If you really like where you live now 9 months out of the year, I would suggest staying where you are. You give up the opportunity of investing the capital, but this only really matters if you need that income. If you have enough wealth anyway, don’t use this as a reason. Downsizing is no picnic, if you are attached to your stuff. I’m an advocate for downsizing when you do get tired of maintaining a large home or are unable to, but once again, if you are as happy as you seem to be and have the wealth to stay, I would stay for now.
My advice is to take it slow. Continue researching SW Florida and rent in the area you are interested in during the months you are interested.
BJ
My fav spot in the Caribbean is Culebra. BEST beaches anywhere, no crowds and reasonable prices. Oh, and since it is part of Puerto Rico, its in the good old USA! I too have done the Caymans many times and I find Culebra much, much cheaper with much nicer beaches. Downside: pretty quiet, not a lot of shopping or night life, but then that’s not what I’m looking for…
I would suspect most of the places in the Caribbean are cheaper than Grand Cayman. š
We are recently retired and have lived in Northeast Ohio pretty much our entire lives. However, we are like you, can’t stand the long, cold winters. We had vacationed in Siesta Key with the kids for years and loved the area so much that we decided to buy a condo there on the beach about 20 years ago. Until I retired we would vacation there and rent it out when it was empty, which helped pay the expenses and mortgage. Now that we are retired we go there during the off season, typically mid-October to mid-November as well as January through February, and rent it out the rest of the time. From a cost standpoint, I can’t say it’s a breakeven investment but we are getting some great appreciation on the place with all of the boomers moving to FL. At some point we may make Siesta Key our permanent residence but, right now, it’s a perfect situation because, like you, it’s just too hot during the summer months. We have the best of both worlds as we also have a place on Lake Erie, which we enjoy from spring through fall.
Needless to say, I highly recommend the Sarasota area and, particularly, Siesta Key. Much more laid back and relaxing than the East Coast, IMO. Good luck in making your decision and have fun at Siesta Key this fall!!!
Steve
P.S. Love your blog. Keep up the good work!!!
I am with you in that I hate cold winter months and that was the reason I moved from Ohio to the south east.
Another option you may consider is living on a nice boat. Can travel whenever you want with it and hit places with clear water all year round.
Florida sounds nice but I little too hot for my taste. I lived in Louisiana and the humidity got to me.
We are in the midst of the a retirement relocation with the driving factors being escape from the high metro NYC taxes and cold winter weather. We started searching last year with the expectation of spending a few years to find the right place and, oops, we found just what we wanted in one of the first places we looked. I couldnāt read the WSJ article but with some internet searching I see that they chose a community right up the lake from the community we chose in SC. We found a house we loved and put in an offer that week. We are renting it out now and plan to move early next year.
We are actually upsizing the square footage but significantly downsizing the expenses. We are spending the next year to purge āstuffā so we only bring the items we love and want. It has been a luxury to be able to go through things slowly. I highly recommend starting sooner than later. Weāve been listing items on LetGo and Facebook Marketplace (easy side hustle) and itās been an interesting experience. My favorite buyers were the 16 year old guy that bought a 4 foot x 5 foot whiteboard to keep track of things for his internet business selling imported kitchen gadgets and the guy that bought my acoustic guitar to build a common interest with his musician son.
We had spent some time prior to starting our search discussing what was important and did a lot of research on line to narrow down where we wanted to look. We did not have a lot of compelling ties to a common family location so that made it easier. Our criteria was an active adult community with amenities, reasonably close to a Curling club, a variety of nearby dining options and some change of seasons, and of course the usual healthcare concerns. What really sold us on our choice was how friendly everyone was and how comfortable we felt with everyone we met. We had checked off all of the criteria on the checklist but the people were the reason we feel confident we made the right decision.
Can you stretch your beach and water ideas to beautiful lake living on Lake Keowee in the Cliffs Communities? Nestled between Asheville NC and Greenville SC, many interests, hobbies and peeps to enjoy. Iāve been watching this area for years. And itās not just Lake living, all sorts of homes, villas, town homes to select from. Iāve not pulled the trigger there yet, but my tentative plans are to buy in the Cliffs, create access to the South and East for short duration trips (weeks to months) utilizing the new residential economy of AirBNB and the like. Close to Caymans by Air. Do Colorado and visit your Kids new living experience in the same fashion for weeks and few months living in rentals. Over time youāll find friendly rentals that will open up properties that youāll want to return to again and again. Lake Keowee is beautiful clear fresh water with all the levels of lifestyle you want or donāt. And if Lake living is not it, beautiful Mountain properties with views in all directions. Well, I look forward to hear your thoughts. And also, great weather mix too in the Cliffs!!
Wow! Those are some nice places!!!!
I second the suggestion to check out the area.We just purchased in Keowee Keys, down the lake from the Cliffs. Lots of housing options there from lots where you can build, single family homes, townhouses, and condos. 90 day minimum rental restrictions on all but the condos which allow weekly rentals. Great amenities, the golf course and clubhouse and dining venue are finishing up an extensive renovation. Lots of boating options, tennis and pickle ball, walking paths throughout the community and nearby hiking. Fully renovated fitness center too. Clemson University is about 20 minutes away so you have some of then advantages of a university life too (and the Clemson Tigers!). Charleston is just a 4 hour drive when you want to enjoy some time on the coast. When we were checking out the area we forged a friendship with a couple that rents there for a few months in the summer to get away from the Florida heat.
If you are looking at annual climate for various places, this hidden page at The Weather Channel is great. Scroll down to a monthly average chart.
https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/ff688ea6e4f6577b5a3816f11cda06ec2316a1e657d9c333c9351f152ecdcbc5
Long-time local (Pikes Peak region) lurker finally compelled to post. Hope my post is of help.
We are at peace with the two-house system to enjoy the best of two climates plus diversity in our hiking and other outdoors pursuits. Iāll explain a bit more.
We are 20 year Colorado Springs area residents sick to death of the growth and crowding on the Front Range. Like you, we are in a monster sized house on 5 lovely wooded acres. Would love to trade the current house for a small home on more acreage with big views. More on that later…
Iāve also owned a small home with mountain views in a southern Arizona retirement community since I was in my 30s. The community is friendly and quiet but the house lacks just a few things: an office or small 3rd bedroom, an enclosed garage for toy storage (kayaks, bicycles, etc)
Our ultimate plan is āRockies in the summer, Sonoran desert in the winterā. Weāll explore beaches as vacations as we havenāt found a beautiful beach with interesting topography, a nice winter climate and affordable housing. (We both still work full time and while my job is super geo flexible (I just need an airport) his is more location dependent.
We are scoping out summer Rockies homes but Montana is on our short list thanks to lakefront properties and slightly lower elevation. (Our current Colorado home sits at 7,600ā.) We need to scour the earth for a small home on 20+ acres way out in the sticks. (We prefer not to see, hear or smell our neighbors.)
The winter home will remain in the Sonoran desert, but weāll get something just a pinch more spacious than the 1,200 square ft 2 bedroom/ 2 bath. This can be on ājust a fewā acres and we actually donāt mind being a bit closer to Tucson for dining and such.
What Iāve witnessed in a decade of owning in a retirement community is: early in retirement, folks spend most their time up north (e.g. in the Rockies) and the northern Home is their primary. Then time passes and joints get stiffer and soon they spend half the year in warm weather. Even more time passes and the warm weather (AZ, FL) house becomes the primary. Eventually, health begins to weaken and a decision is made: either sell the northern house and call life quits in Arizona. Or sell the Arizona house and return home (to the Rockies) to die. Anecdotally, it seems about a 50/50 split on what folks chose near the end.
Back on a happy note: for us, we love having a foot in two different and wonderful places. Summers in the Rocky Mountain high country canāt be beat. Barefoot winters in the Sonoran sun are heavenly. Then weāll vacation elsewhere – especially to beaches for my saltwater husband – when we need to explore.
Running two homes isnāt for everyone. Even in the case of paid in full properties, there are still costs and hassles involved in maintenance, off-season house watchers, etc. But for us, having two homes to choose from frees us from struggling to find a happy medium in terms of climate. I mean – I just donāt like Albuquerque enough to live there full time. š
This is very helpful, thanks.
One question, how do you manage your home when you’re away from it? Property manager, family, neighbors, friends, or just “close it up?”
When Iām not at the Arizona house:
1. My senior citizen parents live there in the winter.
2. In the summer, year-round Arizona residents serve as care takers (for a nominal fee). They stop in every 3 weeks to make sure the AC is running (nothing is melting), termites arenāt taking over, no water is leaking, etc.
We have yet to abandon the Colorado home for months at a time. But when it sits for a few weeks in winter, weāll have a house sitter stop in every week or so to make sure the heat is on and the pipes arenāt frozen, there are no leaks, etc.
Once we retire or semi-retire and spend longer periods in Arizona, we will explore a more tech-heavy solution to monitor heat, water, etc. and even security, especially if a remote location, dirt driveway and heavy snow make it impossible for a house sitter to visit.
Sorry, to be a bit more clear:
Arizona: literally there is just an o forms networking of some folks with their own little LLC (some less formalized) to house watch. You know: Bob and Jennyās Home Watchers.
In Colorado, strangely enough, weāll just pay our dog sitter to stop by: she already has a key to the house and does basic āhome monitoringā stuff when she pet sits, anyhow.
I hope his is helpful!
More complex are issues of mail handling, dental and medical visits, legal or other professional services (haircuts!) plus where youāll actually process your annual taxes!
Wife and I have two vacation homes (main home is in a density populated metro Northeastern metro area.
Second home is in a bucolic semi-rural “upstate” setting surrounded by gentleman farms and rolling fields. Grounds are tended by a landscaping company (once a week lawn care, Spring/Fall clean-ups), pool company (once a week), and local caretaker (once a week and on call for repairs/maintenance). The local caretaker has a network of plumbers, electricians, carpenters, pest control, etc. as needed (or we find our own and he can meet them give them access) and he checks on the house after storms. We also have a housekeeper clean every two weeks – we don’t make much of a mess unless we have guests over, in which case its great to have her swoop in and make it all nice again.
The house has a fire/burglar system and we have outdoor internet video cams installed around the perimeter which can text us when they detect motion in specified areas (this requires fine tuning to eliminate nuisance texts). The Nest cams are expensive but effective, and allow us to see who is coming and going, and keeps a video history for several days. So, when contractors deny having for example screwed up our driveway… we can go to the video replay and have that discussion :-).
What I’ve noticed in popular second home areas is that there is an abundance of folks pitching themselves as “caretakers”. Some are pretty sophisticated outfits geared to wealthy homeowners, others retired tradesmen, and yet others no more than a waiter looking for a side gig. Ours is of the retired tradesman variety and costs about $2,500/year. I’ve sometimes wondered if it’s something I’d want to do in retirement.
The Florida home is on the waterfront in a gated community with the usual common features (clubhouse, pools, marina, etc.). All grounds and exterior maintenance handled by the community and paid for thru common fees. It is in a hurricane zone, but fortunately has not suffered much damage in the past, as very sturdily built and has hurricane shutters on windows. The community staff is pretty good about checking on things for us as needed and they run a tight ship. By and large, except for occasional cleaning, it is maintenance free. We also have a local guy who checks on it every couple of weeks.
I just read all the comments, and Iām a little surprised no one has brought this up: the oceans are very, very gradually rising. Itās not a hoax.
In a year or five years, youāre not going to notice much in Florida, but in 20-30 years you definitely will, especially during onshore wind storms with āstorm surgeā tides. The average elevation in much of southern FL is about 10 feet above sea level. The water table is growing gradually more saline, meaning freshwater wells wonāt be potable. Itās getting harder to afford insurance on the Florida coasts, because the big insurance companies all know these facts, and they are the masters of risk management.
To each their own, but having just turned 50, with hopefully many years left, I would rent, but never purchase in Florida anything less than 20 feet above sea level!
You forgot to mention sink holes…….another trend. You can look this up and see where the trends lie for this issue. Between rising sea levels, over population and approvals to dig deeper and deeper for fresh water, I agree that Florida has become a higher risk for home owners. Rental is the way to go for snowbirds.
BJ
I used to live in an area of the west coast less than three feet from sea level and in a flood zone. So glad I sold it years ago and now wouldn’t buy in that area for the long term.
I am now in the hills at 500ft.
I think its a fair comment!
Just googled this as you got me interested..
Sea level rise will likely lead to unprecedented coastal floods in San Mateo County ā from never before seen to an every-year event ā within 40-60 years, according to new research by Climate Central. More than 90,000 residents, including over 50,000 who represent racial and ethnic minorities, live on land less than 3 feet above the high tide line along San Francisco Bay. Also at risk are more than $21 billion dollars of property value and 220 EPA listed sites that are potential sources of contamination. These figures lead all counties in California. Levees and flood control structures may protect 18-27 percent of these totals at 3 feet, but appear to protect less than 10 percent of exposure at 4 feet.
āSea level rise means more floods, reaching higher ā and thatās already happening today, long before the threat of permanent submersion,ā said Dr. Ben Strauss, study lead and Climate Centralās vice resident for climate impacts. āNorthern California will likely break local records before most of the rest of the nation.ā
Pretty scary and real if your property isn’t going to hold value in just 40-60 years.
Yes. I was mentioning Florida, but for sure the SF Bay Area and many other coastal areas.
To be clear, Iām not discouraging folks from buying lovely vacation or second homes. But I know the folks who hang out at ESI are long-term thinkers, so add āclimate changeā to your plans. Colorado might be an excellent place to be, and a bit warmer in 20 years …
I’m currently at 7,000 ft (which feels low since we can see Pikes Peak at 14k), so I have room to spare. š
My brother and I inherited our parents home in AZ and we have been renting it out for the past 4 years, starting when my parents had moved into assisted living. During the move out phase, before we had tenants, I found out from the insurance company that if the house is unoccupied the insurance only covered damage from fire or other natural causes. Theft and vandalism were not covered if the house was unoccupied. I think it had to be unoccupied for about 60 days before that kicked in. For a dual home situation I suggest checking with your insurance carrier to see what is covered when you are away.
Also in the ESI boat-what to do:
Pros to staying:
1. Iāve loved our NJ home since the first time I walked into it with the realtor. After raising 2 kids and putting them through college, we updated the kitchen, bathroom and laundry areas and I love the renovations
2. We are an hour and a half from NYC and great beaches, very near Philadelphia, and 2 hours or less from DC and Baltimore.
3 My mom is 90 and a half and in a nursing home on Long Island. 1 kid in NJ and 1 in DC/a quick train ride away. Sister on Long Island. Some friends are leaving NJ but many have also opted to stay.
4. We love to travel and can access many airports easily.
Cons to staying in NJ:
1. The taxes.
2. Cold winters.
3. House on 2/3 acre with a lawn and garden that we maintain ourselves.
4. Living on 2 levels.
5. Lack of a good OLLI-Osler living learning program for seniors in our area.
We own 3 timeshare weeks on Marco Island in Florida and love it there. If we play our cards right with requests for our timeshare float weeks, we can spend 2 weeks in November and 2 in January and extend with timeshare trades and Florida friends/family who appear eager to host us for a few days.
However, Florida as a retirement locale does not appeal to us/the coast is gorgeous but pricey and busy in high season. The rest of Florida appears to be scrubby and hot from what we have seen,
I have scoped out the Raleigh Durham area as a possibility-3 hours from mountains and coast, multiple adult Ed/Olli programs. Good shopping and restaurants(we are foodies).. Decent airport and pretty countryside nearby. What scares the heck out of me is moving somewhere where we donāt know a soul.
Great timing Iāve been thinking about this even though Iām about 8 years from retiring. My partner rent in Seattle where we work. Because the housing market is āhotā here I bought a small brand new home at the coast. Itās a 2-3 hour drive from Seattle so we use it once a month for long weekends. My close sister and her husband have a second home in Palm Springs and will probably retire there at least for the winter months depending on where their daughter ends up. So now Iām considering buying a small condo in California now in a resort type community with pools, golf etc. and renting it out to pay the mortgage until we retire. We could keep our primary residence as Washington state (no state taxes) and live at WA Coast in summer where it is cooler and home is paid off and winter in Palm Springs (not too hot, and health care geared to older population and family).
Issues are what to do about cars. Have one in both locations that sits several months? Both locations would require a vehicle and too far to drive twice a year as we age.
And do I want the hassle (and expense) of buying a place in CA now and renting it out (either vrbo or long term)? Or should we wait and rent in CA instead?
Ps I grew up in south FL hating the snow birds, humidity, and bugs….to each their own. : )
I haven’t been able to read all the comments but of the ones I have read I didn’t see a mention of the month of March being Spring Break for many colleges. Would think you would want to put that into consideration as you might not be enjoying the beach during that month.
Also, you mentioned maybe buying a duplex and renting one side – I guess that could be either in CO or FL. Have you considered living in an RV while in Colo Springs? There are many RV parks all over town – especially towards Old Colorado City and Manitou. Might not be your cup of tea but it is an option.
Check out the Villages in FL. It is like a cruise ship on land. You don’t have your ocean experiences but the have so many activities available if you are bored you have a problem. Biggest draw is you can rent out your place when not there and they will be the managers of it for you. You can sign up for an experience vacation and see all they have to offer.
Thanks for all the info that you have shared. You and your readers always have new ideas for me to consider which I can certainly apply to my own retirement.
I have lived almost 30 years in Southwest Florida (Punta Gorda, Venice, Sarasota) and now live very close to Tampa. Have lived for 2 years in Virginia and regularly visits Hawaii. But Florida is home. Florida for me is good from Oct/Nov to March/April, a good 6 months.
The considerations I had when I moved to this area where I am now are: proximity to airport for local and international travel, younger population, close to more engaging activities (Universities, concerts, arts and museum), diversity of culture and convenience for land travel. Siesta Key beach is so crowded during season that I saw an article that they will start charging for parking. There are many other beaches ready for you to experience up and down the west coast of Florida.
I think the idea of living temporarily is very wise. However, in my experience part of the social aspect of living is very important to consider. Having some of your friends and relatives already in the area is a big plus. And being able to meet new like minded friends is also a consideration.
Financially, I have seen our area grow so much in just the last 5 years. It can be a beneficial real estate investment move for you.
I am no expert but if I can assist in anyway, let me know. I truly admire your work in this site, it has given me so much to ponder and consider for my own retirement.
ESI
My thoughts for you to consider. You once mentioned Destin but I think that is too cool in the winter for your needs. And I think Tampa to Naples to too crowded in the winter and very expensive. We have owned a timeshare on Hutchinson Island in Florida for 35 years and go every February. Check it out. It is on a beautiful beach on the Atlantic side and the Indian River flows on the other side. Martin County has height restrictions so no more than 4 stories so less congestion, but still all the amenities in Stuart. Monthly rentals at Indian River Plantation would be worth checking out. We also do warm weather cruises in the winter (this year 22 days cruise from LA to Miami and a 26 day cruise from Sydney to Singapore). We also own a second home in north Georgia mountain home in Blue Ridge, GA and spend much of summer there. We are at the top of a mountain with 30 mile views. One neighbor spends 6 months in winter in Orlando, Florida and the other 6 months in the mountains. The other neighbor lives in Austin, TX for 6 months and then April thru November in north Georgia. They do this to escape the heat. Many āhalf backsā that originally moved to Florida now split their time between Florida in winter and half back to mountains in Georgia, NC, or SC in the summer. Blue Ridge has population of 1800 people but close to Atlanta and major airport and has many year around visitors, thus great amenities, with a large lake, hiking (plus nearby to Appalachian trail), trout fishing, whitewater rafting, restaurants, vineyards, tourist attractions, orchards, etc. https://www.blueridgemountains.com/ One can buy a nice 3 bedroom mountain view home for $275k to $325k, with RE taxes of $1300. We are at 2200 feet elevation and much color than our near Atlanta home and cools off earlier in the evening. Florida has no income taxes, but higher real estate taxes. For retires at 62 years of age, income taxes are nil. Let me know if you ever want to visit me in north Georgia or discuss further.
Thanks! I’ll check that out! (And I appreciate the offer of help — I may end up taking it.)